< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 229 OF 229 ·
|Apr-17-14|| ||TheFocus: <WCC Editing Project> <TheFocus>
<The opening passage in Game Collection: Hastings 1966/67 by W. Ritson Morry.|
Shouldn't there be quotation marks around it all of it's a direct quote?>
Are we now placing magazine reports in quotes? Can you show me that in any other Historical Page? I would put quotes in quotation marks.
<Also, where did it come from? If it's a "standalone publication" it needs a publication date and a year.
It it's from the BCM, it should be listed as such as <note 1>.>
Uh... it is. See Note 1 below. How did you miss that?
<Page numbers should be in the FOOTNOTES section, not in the body of the text.
I don't think you should mix up two different methods of sourcing in the same text.>
If you are speaking of (231), you need to read the preceding sentence again. 231 is the number of participants. I put the article in just as it was. I don't make any corrections unless it is to misspellings. Other than that, I don't change someone else's work.
<Great work though. A fabulous narrative.
Finally, I think that in "series" such as the interzonals/candidates and tournaments that happen annually, <Tab's> idea of listing the previous and subsequent events in the series should be a standard.>
Yes, I will do that. The Hastings tournaments are part of a series. Good suggestion.
<The Gods Smiled on Botvinnik>
by W. Ritson Morry
The Forty-second Hastings Christmas Congress disproved the old adage "Those whom the Gods love die young!" ex-World Champion Mikhail Botvinnik, now fifty-five and looking very fit indeed, won what he himself described as his luckiest tournament after some escapes which would have astounded even Houdini.
History does not always repeat itself. In 1934-35 Sir George Thomas defied the tradition that British Champions always do badly at Hastings by beating Botvinnik, Capablanca, and Lilienthal to tie for first with Euwe and Flohr and put the young Russian among the "also-ran." This time both the present British Champion and the rapidly improving Michael Basman could have won or shared first prize had they taken their respective chances to beat Botvinnik. A great British triumph was averted by a hairs-breadth solely because of the Maestro's remarkable recuperative powers. The cold figures of the score table tell little of the excitement of the final rounds.
History was made in other directions. There was the new venue at the Falaise Hall in the White Rock Gardens just behind the White Rock Pavilion, where I attended the first of my twenty-nine Christmas Congresses in 1931. That was the first of seventeen at the Pavilion to be followed by twelve at the Sun Lounge, but I think it is fair to say that, on the whole, the accommodation this time was the best we have ever had. Certainly the floor was a trifle noisy and sound tended to be magnified owing to the structure of he hall, but there was not the lack of ventilation of the windowless room at the Pavilion nor inadequacy of the heating in the Sun Lounge in cold weather. There was, moreover, room enough to cater for the largest entry ever received (231).
At 3:45 p.m. on Wednesday, December 28th, the Mayor extended his customary welcome to the competitors and called on the Brazilian Ambasador, Señor Jayme Sloan Chermont, formally to open the congress. The Mayor then made the draw for the first round of the Challengers' Tournament and the Ambassador made Botvinnik's first move. Play began just after 4 o'clock.
This year an impressive contingent of young players had been assembled. No less than six of the ten competitors in the Premier Section were twenty years old or less. H. Mecking, the Brazilian Champion, who created a sensation by his tie with Panno and J. Bolbochan in the South American Zonal Tourney, is only fourteen and the youngest player ever to participate in that section. Kurajica, the World Junior Champion, and Balashov, winner of last year's Challengers' Tourney, are but eighteen. Penrose seems almost a veteran with his thirty-two years by the side of Hartston and Keene (nineteen) and Basman (twenty)! The balance of experience and age was adjusted by the presence of grandmasters Botvinnik and Uhlmann and the Israeli master M. Czerniak. 1
Two games in the 8th Round were played on Monday, January 2 instead of the original January 5 to enable Hartston and Keene to attend a reception at the Cuban Embassy on the Thursday. 2
Prize money was as follows: 1st - £150; 2nd - £60; and 3rd-5th, £21 13s. 4d. 3
1. British Chess Magazine, February 1967, pg. 33-34.
2. British Chess Magazine, February 1967, pg. 39.
3. British Chess Magazine, February 1967, pg. 41.
|Apr-17-14|| ||Tabanus: <TheFocus> I missed that you also had this collection. |
<I will have to go back and check, but, <BCM> says it was an unplayed draw, so there is no game-score.>
Can you please provide me with exact source for that? Volume and page number. Probably not necessary though to make a filler game here, as it will not affect the standings.
|Apr-17-14|| ||TheFocus: <Tabanus> Yes, but it will be tomorrow. I am working a double shift today, and will do it as soon as I get home.|
|Apr-17-14|| ||TheFocus: <Tabanus> No problem about us doing duplicate collections. I did all of them for the <Mens World Championship>. I look at mine mostly as "fillers" and will replace mine with any collection that is more complete than mine.|
If someone else finds the dates and articles, that is good, and i will vote for it when it is nominated. If I find the dates and articles, I will nominate it.
If I see that someone has a good sourced collection but no dates, and I do have the dates, I will input them and tell the owner of the collection.
|Apr-17-14|| ||TheFocus: I added <4. Game Collection: Hastings 1965/66, by User: TheFocus, and Game Collection: Hastings 1967/68, by User: suenteus po 147 were their previous and next annual Christmas tournaments.>to Game Collection: Hastings 1966/67.|
|Apr-17-14|| ||TheFocus: I added <2. Hastings 1958/59 (1958), by User: Phony Benoni and Hastings 1960/61 (1960), by User: Phony Benoni were their previous and next annual Christmas tournaments> to Game Collection: Hastings 1959/60.|
|Apr-17-14|| ||zanzibar: Biographers... how do we deal with fictitious games?|
Games which should be preserved as part of the historical record - but which almost certainly did not take place.
The games of Deacon vs Morphy come to mind:
Is there any doubt that the win of Deacon is a fake, or even that any of the games occurred?
Perhaps these games should be 0 move games, with the fake score in a comment?
|Apr-17-14|| ||WCC Editing Project: <zanzibar>
I thought of some of your earlier questions on data provenance when I ran across this fact on the <David Bronstein> page this morning.
I found out who supplied the round numbers, and from what source, for the USSR Championship (1948). I have added this information in small type to the bottom of the intro:
The round numbers for the original games collection were supplied by User: marekg248 from the <"Fritz 8 Database">: David Bronstein
|Apr-17-14|| ||WCC Editing Project: <zanzibar>
We had this conversation recently- I strongly supported <thomastonk's> idea to either get rid of all of them, or clearly mark them as fictitious by actually making the pages a different color.
I believe <thomastonk> suggested a "three tier" color scheme? Maybe one color for intentional parodies, such as Nimzowitsch vs Systemsson, 1927, another color for suspected fakes, and a third for known fakes?
I'm going from memory here- I think he would be able to tell us better than me.
Anyways, this game here was singled out and written about in a public essay by <Olimpiu Urcan> as evidence that our database is a joke:
Einstein vs Oppenheimer, 1933
With respect to this game, and to other fictitious games left in our database for "fun," I agree with <Urcan>.
I think we should revive <thomastonk's> idea and present it to our webmaster.
|Apr-17-14|| ||Benzol: I just wonder if the webmaster follows what occurs on this forum more closely than we suspect.|
|Apr-17-14|| ||WCC Editing Project: <Benzol>
I know for a fact that <Daniel> frequently reads the Bistro posts, same for the admin forum.
I have no problem whatsoever restating, to Daniel's face in public or private, that retaining Einstein vs Oppenheimer, 1933 without any kind of flag or notice that it is fake makes his website look like a joke.
That doesn't mean his website is a joke, or that I think it's a joke. I don't. That's why I said what I said. More than twice now, truth be told.
|Apr-17-14|| ||zanzibar: As far as fakes go -
there should be some propagation down to the PGN file as well. A notice on the game page isn't quite enough.
One idea is the 0-move with comment.
Another would be a "Are you sure?" kind of double click action to be sure you're aware that you're downloading a bogus game. Maybe even for playing it over. (I'm not saying it's the best idea, or even a good idea, but it is an idea).
On the other hand, <CG> has to be all things to all people, so I don't think you can just delete games that achieve this level of notoriety.
|Apr-17-14|| ||zanzibar: <RE: Hastings Intl Congress 1961/62>|
I admit I could only "bracket" the playing dates. But I can also offer this:
Tournament President: P. J. Morran
Tournament Director: Frank Rhodan
Is this info useful?
And for how this was determined (and the Finest Climate in Britian):
(And the Right Worshipful Mayor of Hastings? Cecil Barfoot
|Apr-17-14|| ||zanzibar: A few interesting tidbits from the President's page:|
<Another occasion on which he [Morran] felt it right to express his opinion came at the prizegiving for the 1956-57 Congress. A newspaper seems to have stated that the tournament director, Frank Rhoden, had claimed to have built up the Congress from nothing in four years. Rhoden in fact denied saying this and Morren chose to refer to the Congress organisers of the past declaring that Hastings had had a long procession of very important and hard-working people.
Rhoden had managed to attract Russian grandmasters to the congress and Morren invited the Russian ambassador J Malik to open the 1955-56 Congress. Morren even persuaded Malik to visit his firm's factory in South Wales and an exchange of visits between groups of English and Russian watchmakers followed.
Early in 1954 Morren found that he had a problem with the Spanish Chess Federation. Rhoden admitted that he had cancelled the invitation of the Spanish master, Roman Bordell when the Russians had decided to play at Hastings. The Hastings and St Leonards Observer of 23.1.1954 reported a statement allegedly made by a Russian that the Russians would not participate in tournaments in which there were 'Fascist entrants'. The Spanish Chess Federation went so far as to break off relations with the British Chess Federation but according to the Sussex Daily News of 8.2.1954 G Wheatcroft, the president of the BCF, maintained that his organisation had nothing to do with the cancellation of Bordell's invitation. The article also reported that Morren wrote to the Spanish Chess Federation expressing 'profound regret' that there should have been cause for misunderstanding. He stated that certain terms had been offered to Bordell, but his acceptance was not received before the ten players in the section were completed. The article also stated that at no time was the Congress Committee concerned as to whether the Rusians would play against Bordell.>
|Apr-18-14|| ||zanzibar: <Tabanus> I looked at 1962 Stockholm about the missing Gligoric-Benko game.|
A bit more info would help, i.e. what were the order of the pairings?
Here a quote from you:
<But one game is missing! Limburgsch Dagblad 16 March says Gligoric and Benkö played a draw on Thursday 15 March, but that the game was irrelevant for the final result.>
I think it is rather more likely that this game was not played as Gligoric had no chance to qualify after the 1st game loss to Benko.
It's curious that Stein was entered into the playoff, given that FIDE rules precluded him qualifying for the playoffs (given the quota of 3 Soviets already being full).
Does this make sense? (It's late, and my last post...)
|Apr-18-14|| ||Tabanus: <zanzibar> I'm waiting for BCM's report, and am ready to rewrite the last sentence in the playoff collection. Limburgsch Dagblad just says "the game was a draw", BCM perhaps says "unplayed draw". I agree that just "unplayed" is most likely. The order of the pairings you can see now in the collection, Benkö should have black in the 6th game.|
<It's curious that Stein was entered into the playoff, given that FIDE rules precluded him qualifying for the playoffs>
The Times says he would be Soviet's reserve if he won (which he did). What would happen if he had not won I don't know - one would think he'd be the reserve anyway, since he was shared 6th in the interzonal.
|Apr-18-14|| ||Tabanus: Game Collection: Stockholm Interzonal Playoff 1962:|
Hmm, no he had to beat Gligoric in the playoff, else Gligoric would have been the "reserve" player. Imagine if Gligoric had won the 5th game and then also won the 6th game vs Benkö. Then they all would have had 2 points.
|Apr-18-14|| ||WCC Editing Project: <TheFocus>
Thank you for such a detailed reply!
So the whole intro was the entirety of the article. Apologies for mistaking the (231) as a page number.
I thought that the text up to (231) was <W. Ritson Morry>, and that you had written the rest of it, and sourced that with footnotes.
I will change my vote straight away.
|Apr-18-14|| ||TheFocus: <Tabanus> BCM, May 1962, pg. 134: <Readers will remember from last month that there was a triple tie for the sixth qualifying place in the Interzonal at Stockholm between Benko, Gligoric, and Stein. These three met in a play-off immediately after the tournament and first prize went to Stein 3, Benko 2 and Gligoric 0. Players met each other twice, with the exception that the last game between Benko and Gligoric was not played once it became apparent that the hapless Gligoric was doomed to bottom place. Stein's victory will not give him a position in the Candidates' Tournament since the Soviet Union already have their full quota of players in that event. However should one of three who did qualify (Petrosian, Geller, and Korchnoi) fail to participate then Stein can take his place. Meanwhile Benko has won the right to play once more in the Candidates' Tournament though few will expect him to come higher than he did in the 1959 event.>|
This is from the <News from Overseas> column, edited by Harry Golembek.
|Apr-18-14|| ||TheFocus: Oops. Golombek.|
|Apr-18-14|| ||Petrosianic: As it happens, Benko did a LOT better than in 1959. Astoundingly well, in fact.|
|Apr-18-14|| ||zanzibar: <WCC> <RE: Round numbers> - good detective work finding the notice in the comments. |
I hope the good work of the biographers here finds its way back into RUSbase when warranted.
|Apr-18-14|| ||Tabanus: <TheFocus> Thanks! So not "unplayed draw" but just "not played". The Limburgsch Dagblad is the only newspaper to report a "draw" on March 15, I suppose they were just wrongly informed or sloppy reporting.|
|Apr-18-14|| ||zanzibar: <Tabanus>, <TheFocus> <RE: '62 Candidate's Playoff Stockholm>|
Seems to explain the situation nicely - and makes a good side story for the tournament.
The FIDE quota system was a headache with all the special cases. Stein was the leading reserve, but could only serve if a Soviet dropped out.
Now, <Tabanus>, I think you should write a letter of complaint to <Limburgsch Dagblad>.
Gheesh, contemporaneous sources! Can't trust 'em farther than ya kin throw 'em!
|Apr-18-14|| ||Tabanus: Game Collection: Stockholm Interzonal Playoff 1962: Good enough? Bad English?|
If acceptable I'll write to CG and ask them to withdraw the 5 games from the interzonal. (The playoff crosstable can still be retained there.) Then I'll nominate the playoff. NB! I cannot change the round numbers yet, not before the games are out. Good plan?
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