< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 305 OF 305 ·
|Sep-15-14|| ||crawfb5: <Stonehenge> It is. Winter's Chess Note was based on a 4 Jan 1920 <Chicago Daily Tribune> which only noted news of his passing in Puerto Rico. His death notice appeared in the 31 Dec 1919 <New York Times>. He died on 28 Dec 1919 at his son's home in Puerto Rico.|
|Sep-16-14|| ||chessgames.com: <Stonehenge> It must not have been there; I don't recalling ever removing a country. Should I presume there is a need for it now?|
On another note, somebody submitted a correction slip claiming Mikhail Tal had a peak rating of 2705. Can anybody confirm that please?
|Sep-16-14|| ||Stonehenge: Here Tal has 2705:
|Sep-16-14|| ||chessgames.com: <<<The Last Straw:> FID is recycling ID numbers. An 1869-rated guy called Andrew F Footner has his old FIDE ID number.|
This is really problematic for those of us trying to maintain large and historically correct databases.>
That is truly disturbing.
It's a basic tenet of database management that you don't do that. They are called "unique identifiers" for a reason. CG player IDs used to be 5 digits, now they are 6, and if in the future they need to be 7 or 8 then so be it. What's the problem?
What is FIDE afraid of, that they are going to run out of numbers?
Perhaps they would be responsive to a petition signed by CG, TWIC, NIC, ChessBomb, and other major game outlets. It would politely say "please change your clerical procedure for improved chess technologies." It really is that simple, yet that serious of an issue.
|Sep-16-14|| ||Stonehenge: <Bahrain>
I think you can take this country list:
|Sep-16-14|| ||Tabanus: So it's BRN, not BAH|
|Sep-16-14|| ||Stonehenge: No BAH is Bahamas. And LIB is Lebanon not Libya to make it easy.|
|Sep-16-14|| ||chessgames.com: Oh, I just discovered a mistake. We recently added the country of Bhutan and accidentally assigned it the same internal code as Bharain. So it's not an omission, it's a database fumble. Don't worry, I can fix it.|
|Sep-16-14|| ||chessgames.com: OK here are the known Bhutan players: Anand Rai,
And Bahrain players are now correctly assigned again. Sorry about that.
|Sep-16-14|| ||chessgames.com: About the biography for Anthony Miles:|
The real question of discussion is: did Karpova overdo it on the detailed description of the "Secondgate" (for lack of a better term) scandal with Keene? Not that any of it is false or undocumented, but it occupies almost half of the article. Does it really deserve such weight?
As JFQ said, we're really not trying to protect anybody here. We just want the articles to present a balanced overview of the man's career, without blowing anything out of proportion.
I read Karpova's argument that this incident played a huge role in his breakdown, and that substantiates the need for delving into it in such detail. Provided she is correct in that assertion, her line of reasoning is entirely sound.
The litmus test is this: if somebody who knew nothing at all about Tony Miles read the biography, would they walk away with a balanced view of his career?
I'm not saying to trim it or expand it; just that the weight of that particular section should be proportional to its importance in Mile's career as a whole.
|Sep-16-14|| ||Karpova: <chessgames.com>
When I came across the short biography of Miles, I thought he deserved a better one.
I never intended to, but then decided to devote almost 1/3 of the biography to this incident, because I didn't want to shorten it in such a way, that it became cryptic. And once I start, I have to explain what it was about, but also mention Keene's point of view.
Furthermore, it was probably the main reason for his mental breakdown, is well-documented and chess-related. So it is of a different nature than the many apocryphal stories about old masters or historic events which are not directly related to chess.
The question is, what is a <balanced view of Miles' career>? He certainly did have an unusual chess career with ups and downs, unlike many other great chessplayers (and even fewer with such thorough documentation).
Even if 1/3 of the biography may be a bit too much, perhaps it is better this way and the reader at least has a glimpse of what went on, than something like this:
<After he was hospitalized because of a mental breakdown in late 1987, Miles moved to the United States. He finished last in the 1988 U.S. Championship, but continued to play there and had some good results.> from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_M... 'Further career highlights'. The reader doesn't know what was going on there, until he comes to the 'Personality' section, devoted entirely to scandals. And I also don't think that the treatment the affair received there, was too good. One wonders why Miles would become obsessed over payments Keene received from the BCF, suffering a mental breakdown over it, and being hospitalized after trying to talk to the Prime-Minister? The same paragraph ends with Short's explanation for the breakdown, in which the affair described above is not even mentioned. To me, this looks very puzzling.
So I thought that devoting almost 1/3 to the issue is worth it, if the reader then understands Miles' actions a bit better (and knows what Keene said about it, also).
Regarding the length, the parts about Miles' tournaments can be expanded, and then the paragraph on the scandal becomes smaller in comparison even more.
|Sep-16-14|| ||zanzibar: <RE: FIDE country codes>|
I suppose I should soon eliminate my <CG> page as well, following <Phoney>'s example. But I'll still keep my blog post up.
The <CG> version is now the definitive authority though, and should be the one people link to, primarily.
* * * * *
<Stonehenge: No BAH is Bahamas. And LIB is Lebanon not Libya to make it easy.>
I have a little python module, CC_codes, with the mappings:
CC: 3-letter code -> country
CC3: country -> 3-letter code
A useful page to look for troublesome abbrevs is here:
FIDE thinks of itself as an Olympic kind of entity, and so will generally follow IOC standards. Here's a select list of potential troublesome entries where <IOC> disagrees with both <FIFA>+<ISO>:
<IOC> <FIFA> <ISO>
ANT ATG ATG -- Antigua and Barbuda
BAH BHR BHR -- Bahrain
BAR BRB BRB -- Barbados
BIZ BLZ BLZ -- Belize (FIDE?)
IVB VGB VBG -- British Virgin Islands
BUR BFA BFA -- Burkina Faso
ESA SLV SLV -- El Salvador
GEQ EQG GNQ -- Equatorial Guinea (no FIDE?)
GBS GNB GNB -- Guinea-Bissau (no FIDE?)
INA IDN IDN -- Indonesia
IRI IRN IRN -- Iran
LAT LVA LVA -- Latvia
LBA LBY LBY -- Libya
MAW MWI MWI -- Malawi
NGR NGA NGA -- Nigeria
SLO SVN SVN -- Solvenia
SUD SDN SDN -- Sudan
ISV VIR VIR -- US Virgin Islands
There are other differences for obsolete entries. The conclusion is that differences are not uncommon at all!
* * * * *
I couldn't find any players from Belize in the latest player list. I didn't find a federation for that country on FIDE's site:
http://www.fide.com/info.html (look under Intl Titles)
|Sep-16-14|| ||chessgames.com: <Karpova> You state your case very convincingly and it's clear that you are operating in the right spirit.|
|Sep-17-14|| ||Karpova: Are these two players Victor Exner and Gyozo R Exner the same person? The first names are identical (Gyözö = Victor) and the 'Wiener Schachzeitung' uses Victor and Gyözö interchangeably. In addition, Rod Edwards has them under the same player file http://www.edochess.ca/players/p582... (else, there is only a Kornel Exner, but no other Exner). Also fits with regards to the tournaments they played in. If this sounds convincing, a correction slip can be submitted.|
|Sep-17-14|| ||Tabanus: http://az-europe.eu/en/1211819-sk-s...:|
"Bratislava chess club was created in February 1891 due to the teacher Victor Exner, who a year before transferred to Bratislava from Budapest."
How does that fit?
|Sep-17-14|| ||Paint My Dragon: <Karpova> Perhaps some further evidence from Chess Personalia (Gyozo and Kornel only) and Gaige's Crosstable Index ...|
which has entries for Exner and G Exner, but not V Exner.
|Sep-17-14|| ||ljfyffe: (Verner) Wendel's chess games site includes a modern player as well- with the name of Wendel.|
|Sep-17-14|| ||Penguincw: I was just wandering around the site, and whenever someone has time, it would be nice to update one of the bios.|
< His 7.5/11 result in the European Individual Championships (2013) qualified him to play in the World Cup (2013), where he defeated Egyptian #1, GM Bassem Amin in the first round, moving to round 2 where he meets Hikaru Nakamura. In October 2013, he was second reserve for the bronze medal winning team SOCAR in the European Club Cup (2013). >
So what happened at the World Cup?
|Sep-18-14|| ||Karpova: <Paint My Dragon> <Tabanus>|
I came to the conclusion that they are the same player. It's not unusual to see a name being translated, which explains why he is sometimes called Victor and not Gyözö. It's also notable that Victor played in the same tournaments as Gyözö, so there is no problem with diverging chess career records.
Perhaps a new player named <Gyozo R (Victor) Exner> would be best.
|Sep-18-14|| ||Tabanus: Perhaps we could learn from this case: Gyozo Victor Forintos?|
|Sep-18-14|| ||Tabanus: http://epa.oszk.hu/01900/01965/0002...(Budapesti Sakk-szemle October 1891 p. 81):|
<Exner Győző ur pozsonyi tanár, a legerősebb magyar sakkjátszók egyike, a mult hó végén Budapesten töltött nehány napot, s ez alkalommal több izben felkereste a budapesti sakkozó-társaság helyiségét, ahol is egyes clubtagokkal több érdekes játszmát váltott. Exner ur nemrégiben Bécsben is megfordult s ottan ismert játszókkal szép sikerrel mérközött meg.>
Exner Gyozo ur teacher in Bratislava, the strongest Hungarian sakkjátszók one at the end of last month and spent a few days in Budapest, and this time playing chess on several occasions visited the premises of the company in Budapest, where some club members has more interesting game. Exner ur Vienna recently turned and definitely known to play nice with successfully competed.
|Sep-18-14|| ||Tabanus: The magazine Budapesti Sakk-szemle for 1889-1892 is online here: http://epa.oszk.hu/html/vgi/kardexl...|
I don't know if more years are covered elsewhere.
|Sep-18-14|| ||Karpova: <Tabanus> Thanks for the interesting information!|
The question is: Did Victor Exner have a chess career different from Gyozo R Exner?
When we look at Victor Exner 's record, we find only tournaments in which Gyozo R Exner participated - and he was the only <Exner> to do so.
The only game which does not seem to fit is Pillsbury vs V Exner, 1902 from Blindful Simul, 27 July 1902 in Hanover, Germany. But Gyozo R Exner participated in the Hauptturnier A of the 13th German Chess Federation Congress, 21 July 1902 to 11 August 1902 in Hanover, Germany.* This means that Gyozo R Exner was in Hanover at that time, so everything fits.
It doesn't seem as if Victor Exner was a player on his own, and if he wasn't, he doesn't need his own player profile. Whether <Gyozo R (Victor) Exner> or <Gyozo R Victor Exner> is preferred, or not.
|Sep-18-14|| ||Tabanus: <Karpova> Must be the same man. It's possible also to check the 1890 issues of Budapesti Sakk-szemle. And I found him in Ancestry.com! Which refers to http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/f... which again refers to Wikipedia.|
|Sep-18-14|| ||Tabanus: <Karpova> I suggest "Gyozo Exner" (Gyözö Exner if possible) in the header (for CG to change), and "Gyözö (Victor) Regöczi Exner" in the bio text (if you or someone writes a few lines). Not that I'm 100% sure that's the best.|
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