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Kibitzer's Cafe
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Oct-22-14  Alien Math: Started to learn English year and quarter before current time, most the comment appear from google translate or her view on how English appears in her eyes.

Main reason why not attempt to translate towards English

Oct-22-14  Alien Math: <But before going here's an unscientific study via google of hit counts for the various phrases:

1. <lying propaganda> - 28,600 results

2. <propaganda lies> - 112,000

3. <propagandist lies> - 12,300>

One of her primary means to note where an add-on search appear helpful, the different translate types that appear when using a tree with your extensions

Oct-22-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Stonehenge: <CG>

Thanks, I think I read somewhere that you didn't want Under-10 tournaments. But with such strong players I understand they shouldn't be deleted.

Oct-22-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Fischer fans should submit a slip on Fischer - Petrosian Candidates Quarterfinal (1971).

I just did.

Oct-22-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheFocus: <Tabanus> What kind of slip?

And, even though I did the original collection, the intro was done by someone else, as covered in here earlier.

Oct-22-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheFocus: Oh, yeah. Yuck!

It says quarter-final.

Again, not my fault. My collection said Final.

Oct-22-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <TheFocus> Correction slip!

It was a candidates final, not quarterfinal. I don't know who wrote that the match "cleared a hurdle" and the other stuff.

Oct-22-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheFocus: I don't remember either <Tabanus>. It was mentioned here a few months back who added the intro, especially about the openings, but I don't remember now.
Oct-22-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheFocus: Looking back at the link, it just says a team put that intro together.

I think my intro was only a couple of lines long.

Oct-22-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: Swiss xtab (w round pairings) for Danish Ch at Ringsted 1995:

<Ringsted
Ringsted, 1995
Average Rating: 2439
Rtng Ti Age Nat Score 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Perf Chg ------------

1: Kristiansen, Jens 2415 gm 43 DEN 6.5 / 9 5w= 3w+ 6b= 8w+ 9b+ 10w+ 2b- 7w= 4b+ 2694 +28 (+5 -1 =3)

2: Danielsen, H 2430 27 FAI 6.0 / 9 8b= 9w+ 10b+ 5b- 7w+ 4b- 1w+ 3b= 6w+ 2565 +17 (+5 -2 =2)

3: Schandorff, Lars 2450 gm 30 DEN 5.5 / 9 4w= 1b- 5w= 6w= 8b+ 9w+ 10b+ 2w= 7b= 2532 +8 (+3 -1 =5)

4: Hoi, Carsten 2415 gm 38 DEN 5.0 / 9 3b= 6w+ 8b= 9w= 10b- 2w+ 7b= 5b+ 1w- 2443 +3 (+3 -2 =4)

5: Mortensen, Erling 2500 im 40 DEN 4.5 / 9 1b= 10w+ 3b= 2w+ 6b- 7w= 8b= 4w- 9b= 2424 -9 (+2 -2 =5)

6: Kjeldsen, Jens 2410 im 24 DEN 4.0 / 9 7w= 4b- 1w= 3b= 5w+ 8w= 9b= 10w= 2b- 2436 +3 (+1 -2 =6)

7: Nielsen, P 2500 33 DEN 4.0 / 9 6b= 8w= 9b= 10w= 2b- 5b= 4w= 1b= 3w= 2389 -14 (+0 -1 =8)

8: Berg, Klaus 2420 im 35 DEN 3.5 / 9 2w= 7b= 4w= 1b- 3w- 6b= 5w= 9w= 10b= 2353 -7 (+0 -2 =7)

9: Kristensen, B 2455 29 DEN 3.5 / 9 10w+ 2b- 7w= 4b= 1w- 3b- 6w= 8b= 5w= 2357 -13 (+1 -3 =5)

10: Antonsen, Mikkel 2400 im 22 DEN 2.5 / 9 9b- 5b- 2w- 7b= 4w+ 1b- 3w- 6b= 8w= 2277 -14 (+1 -5 =3)

------------
45 games: +15 =24 -6>

Using <MillBase> and twic 28-30 (which were very helpful giving round pairings, results)

http://www.theweekinchess.com/html/...
http://www.theweekinchess.com/html/...
http://www.theweekinchess.com/html/...

<TWIC> refers to the other section as Group B, but isn't general usage now Open?

Oct-22-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Paint My Dragon: <Zanzi> Generally, 'Open' means open to everyone, regardless of nationality, rating etc.

With national championships, there can be a 'no outsiders allowed' policy, hence Group A and Group B to keep the main championship strong and perhaps all-play-all rather than Swiss, while allowing the lesser lights (nationals only) to have their own contest. The winner of Group B may also qualify for Group A next year, as at Wijk aan Zee.

Exceptionally, you may also see cases of National 'Open' Championships, where some select outsiders may be allowed or invited to play hors-concours, to improve the standard of competition (often seen as a training exercise for their Olympic team), or to improve norm chances for their IMs/FMs.

In Britain, we have the main (Closed) British Championship for the strong guys and the Major 'Open' for the next band, the latter being, as the name suggests, open to all, but perhaps with a maximum rating restriction, I don't remember.

I don't know the circumstances of the Danish Championship though.

Oct-22-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: <PmD> Thank you very much for that nice elucidation.

Totally makes sense, with only this question remaining - should the master section of the tournament explicitly be denoted (Group A) so that people know to look for other tournament sections?

Oct-22-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: <Alien Math> I hate to say this, but I've tried reading your posts a couple of times and am a little confused.

E.g. using "her" in the matter that you do is what's called an "unreferenced pronoun".

It's not entirely clear what the "her" refers to, maybe a person, but maybe not.

Maybe it's a little late to rejoin the topic, but I thought I should have the courtesy to mention my confusion.

Oct-23-14  Alien Math: <zanzibar> That are the primary reason why her <her own opinion most times> are not suited for translation efforts,

would have to go from primary source to Russian, Vietnamese or German, maybe even Chinese if the pronouns suit the comment more,

That are why her own words are less than ideal for translates towards English, an expression of are sorry are to be sent,

German with all it's history, has several variants as some may note, yet it's ability to provide compound words to note a thought, are one of it's Strengths,

Her sorrow that the google translate used to note own thoughts has not specified it as such are noted, if wish for further comment her would query Thanh for accurate English when wishing to reply

Oct-23-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Paint My Dragon: <Zanzi>

Yes, would be my answer. I've been cataloguing tournaments for many years now and a proper, universal system, as you may be suggesting, would be great, if it were practically achievable.

But yes, all permutations are possible - GM/IM/FM ... I/II ... GM/Master ... A/B/C ... Masters/Open ... SuperGM/Open ... Elite GM/U2350/U2100 etc. The possibilities are endless. And of course it depends how far you want to look down the line - i.e. the British Ch. will have many classes below the Major Open ... maybe an U2100, U1800, Seniors (Over 65), Under 21 yrs, etc ... plus weekenders, blitz, pairs and so on. Some classes will be frivolous of course, played in the pub even!

At Hastings there have been a myriad of category descriptions such as Elite GM, 15th IT, 44th ICC, Masters, Challengers, Masters Reserves, Reserves ... which can all be quite baffling for the historian, particularly when some sources will carry on using the old descriptions long after they've changed.

Oct-24-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: <PmD> many thanks as always, I'm learning from a master!

(Really, if a tournament has sections, and you need a xtab to figure out leaders for awards/cash/etc, the PGN site tag should reflect that structure. As if that would ever consistently happend!)

Oct-24-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: <Alien Math> OK, I think I understand a little better (though still not perfectly I have to admit).

But I would agree that translating from German into English poses a few problems that need extra care. One of which is maintaining the meaning, while generating sentence structures that flow more like English than a choppy literal German translation.

For instance, French (which I know a little) sentences tend to flow more like English, whereas I find German (which I don't know) are structure like short assemblies bolted together, similar to their use of compound words.

Of course, I freely admit that I might not know what I'm talking about since I really don't know German.

(Best to leave the real work of translation to a true bilingual speaker - which we seem to have here on <CG>)

Oct-24-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: Today is the birthday of everybody's favorite royal chess player, Prince Andrey Dadian of Mingrelia.

Something bothered me about his biography: <Yet rumors and insinuations of irregularities plagued him. Though nothing has ever been proven, he has been suspected of creating some of his games, or of having them created beforehand and coercing his opponents to follow the script.>

The part that I question is the phrase <rumors and insinuations of irregularities plagued him>? That is to say that he was accused, while being alive, of fabricating games. And furthermore that such accusations caused him distress and/or followed him wherever he went ("plagued" him). I don't know if this is true or not, but it's the kind of assertion that needs to be corroborated.

Offhand it seems to me that a biographer was trying (perhaps rightfully) to convey the suspicious nature of his games, and went a little over the top.

Just thought it was worth mentioning.

Oct-24-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  zanzibar: Batgirl covers his life in great detail:

http://www.edochess.ca/batgirl/dadi...

http://www.chess.com/article/view/l... (wiki link to batgirl)

In the latter article see comes flat out with this:

<Today most people believe that Prince Dadian's "masterpieces" were staged, either pre-arranged or simply bought and paid for.>

Perhaps <CG>'s bio can reference one or the other of the above as a source for the statement? (I haven't tried to trace it further upstream from there, which would be even better of course)

Oct-24-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

<zanzibar>

Good idea. Both of those <batgirl> articles are themselves well-sourced. Her sources are listed and can be used to update that controversial passage in the Prince Andrey Dadian of Mingrelia bio.

I'm going to make a few minor updates to the Salomon Flohr bio, to let colleagues know.

Oct-24-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

<Colleagues> Might someone who knows how to use our new LEADERBOARD CHANGING FUNCTION please fix the leaderboard for Leningrad/Moscow training (1939)?

The problem is this: <Panov had a missing game against Flohr in Round 2, and missing games against Kan, Goglidze, Reshevsky, Tolush, and Romanowsky in Rounds 13-17, suggesting an early forfeit and eventual withdrawal.>

Oct-24-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: I don't think many of us would argue with batgirl's assertion: <Today most people believe that Prince Dadian's "masterpieces" were staged, either pre-arranged or simply bought and paid for.> However, she carefully used the word "today". Our biography paints a different picture:

<...rumors and insinuations of irregularities plagued him.>

They didn't just plague his historical reputation, they plagued HIM. That implies that he was accused of this while he was alive, and such accusations were uncomfortable for him. That's a much different assertion than saying that modern historians treat his games skeptically.

Oct-24-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: <Might someone who knows how to use our new LEADERBOARD CHANGING FUNCTION please fix the leaderboard for Leningrad/Moscow training (1939)?> I just tried my hand at it. Seems to work fine: the leaderboard is now identical to the cross table.

My only question is if it's correct to list Panov's final result as +0 -10 =7 when we know that most of those losses were forfeits? I assumed that since he wasn't expunged, that's the proper way to do it.

Oct-24-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Sneaky> While most of Panov's losses were by forfeit, the majority of his games were actually played, so in my opinion the results should remain as listed.
Oct-24-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  WCC Editing Project:

<Sneaky> excellent thank you!

I agree with your post on the Prince Andrey Dadian of Mingrelia bio.

I also think the wording should be changed to be more consistent with the language <batgirl> uses.

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