< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 189 OF 252 ·
|Jan-09-18|| ||zanzibar: Where was Zukertort born?
Convention suggests Lublin (now part of Poland, then Russian) in 1842.
But I think it might be incorrect - I have a contemporaneous newspaper report from 1886 saying he was born in Riga RUS.
Not only that, but an important biographical reference, DNB (1900), also gives his birthplace as Riga (district of RUS).
He father, "a converted Jew, having been a protestant minister of very humble means in the town and district of Lublin, Russian Poland".
That might explain the Lublin connection.
What do the crackerjacks say?
|Jan-09-18|| ||zanzibar: BTW- Here is a 1905 map showing both cities fairly clearly:|
|Jan-09-18|| ||zanzibar: Also - here's the 2018 FAM (FIDE Arbiter's Manual):|
Hot off the presses!
|Jan-10-18|| ||zanzibar: https://books.google.com/books?id=g...|
|Jan-10-18|| ||zanzibar: Landsberger gives Zuckertort b. Riga as well, but Harding in EVCP has this snippet:|
< During his lifetime and in several obituaries, Zukertort was often said to have been born in Riga, but this was ...>
which is all I can see at the moment.
|Jan-10-18|| ||Telemus: Harding's complete statement is:
"During his lifetime and in several obituaries, Zukertort was often said to have been born in Riga, but this was corrected in the article "Chess in England", International Chess Magazine, IV (August 1888) page 227, based on information from his brother, Adolf Zukertort. Domanski and Lissowski are apparently satisfied that this information was correct."
C.W. Domanski and T. Lissowski wrote "Arcymistrz z Lublina" (!) (Warsaw, 2002), and these authors report on exhausting research in some archives which gave an indusputable proof ...
|Jan-10-18|| ||zanzibar: <Telemus> thanks kindly for that information. It looks like Zukertort is the 3rd rail for chess historians. |
To tell the truth, I'm not definitely convinced about Lublin being his birthplace - as it appears to be one brother's vouchsafe testimony vs. the other (Adolf vs. Johann, as Johann must be responsible for the widely disseminated Riga claim).
It's very unfortunate, at least for me (and the majority of researchers I suppose), that "Arcymistrz z Lublina"(*) is only available in German and Polish. It also most unfortunate that Steinitz's ICM doesn't have the volume in question available online.
I can post more about this topic, as it really is quite interesting, both on face-value and at a meta-level.
Maybe later (or maybe not?).
(*) The GM could be said to be from Lublin (as in, growing up there) and still have been born in Riga, fwiw.
|Jan-11-18|| ||zanzibar: <Telemus> RE: Zukertort's birthplace|
Harding is being inaccurate in not exposing the full chain of custody for the information:
<It has been commonly believed that the late Johann Hermann Zukertort was born in the town of Riga on the 7th September, 1842, but it is now stated on the authority of Herr E. Schallopp, who gets his information from Herr Adolf Zukertort, a stenographer in Berlin and a brother of J. H. Zukertort, that the real birthplace of the great Chess player was Lublin, a small town in Russian Poland. The year of his birth is undoubtedly 1842, but whether the 7th of September was his actual natal day is not quite so certain, but probabilities point that it was.>
Source: International Chess Magazine, August 1888, p227
Johannes Zukertort (kibitz #239)
So, it's supposedly from Adolf, but by way of Schallopp... hmmm.
The above post is from the eminent <jnpope> who also posts:
<A little digging around: Adolf turns out to be a younger brother (born 1850), so I'm not sure how he would know for certain that his older brother was not born in Riga.
It seems clear that the family resided in Lublin at the time of his birth, but there may exist the possibility that his mother was in Riga on the day of his birth (there could be any number of reasons; visiting relatives perhaps?). ... >
Johannes Zukertort (kibitz #240)
Pope also mentions that Lissowski may have found a birth certificate - but then a facsimile should be published somewhere on the web, which, afaict, there isn't.
Anyways, looks like I've stumbled upon a well known "issue". I'm still leaning towards Riga, but would agree that any mention needs a footnote to be "honest".
|Jan-11-18|| ||zanzibar: [A few idle thoughts...]
Is anybody interested in working to expand the range of original sources of chess history available on the internet?
What are the most important sources currently missing that might be accessible?
* * * * *
I think the early British newspapers are woefully represented, and in point of fact, the lack of publicly available material online is embarrassing.
Hear that <MissS>? Have you written <MsMay> about this national disgrace?
Look at the Google book sources, almost all are from *American* libraries, like Harvard, Princeton, NYPL, etc -- even for the early British periodicals!
The British can freely utilize their work via our work, but we have zero access to their work via their work.
(I'm thinking about Bell's Journal, London Illustrated News, and Illustrated Sports and Drama News, among others)
* * * * *
A major missing body of literature, which I would love to make available, are the first six volumes of Steinitz's International Chess Magazine.
Only v7 is currently available, but I can't imagine that some US library doesn't have the other issues.
And what about Cleveland's White collection?
I understand that CPL is beginning to digitize some of its collection. Can we, as a community, offer some input into priorities?
* * * * *
There are some volumes of ISDN and ILN that have made it onto the web, but in bulk format. I submitted chess column clippings for one volume to Pope for inclusion into the O'Keefe timeline.
Would others be willing to do the same for other volumes?
* * * * *
What about getting some PD books online, so that collectors don't just die and have their books dispersed to garage sales where no one recognizes their value?
One book which I expected to find online, but seems missing, is MacDonnell's <Chess Life-Pictures>. Again, there must be some university library which had it, but for some reason, Google books missed scanning it.
* * * * *
Of course, there's also the issue of patching up some of the corrupted scans that Google Books did on the first pass. How can we catalog, and hopefully, fix such issues?
* * * * *
Oh, and is their any way we can get OCR versions of O'Keefe?
Chronological searching is fine and dandy, but we all know and appreciate the ability to google search our books whenever possible.
|Jan-11-18|| ||TheFocus: Of course, you could also just buy the hard copies of Steinitz's <International Chess magazine>, like I did, from Moravian Chess.|
(Yeah, that was a plug. I like Moravian Chess reprints of famous magazines.
I personally would hate to rely only on on-line sources. Thankfully, I have a huge library.
|Jan-11-18|| ||zanzibar: Moravian will always have a small market for those wanting a hard copy.|
But for deep research, we need the versions online - both for accessibility for all, and for google-type searches.
Heck, even my PDF versions prove more useful with text searches.
Besides, Moravian essentially did what I'm advocating (scanning copies, most likely from libraries) - but for their own profit.
|Jan-11-18|| ||zanzibar: <Thankfully, I have a huge library.>|
OK, just think of yourself as the giant Brontosaurus, and I'm the little mammal-creature, scurrying around the ground, trying to keep out of your way.
|Jan-11-18|| ||TheFocus: I do play chess like a dinosaur.|
|Jan-11-18|| ||TheFocus: I am sure that eventually all chess books will be online.|
|Jan-11-18|| ||MissScarlett: <Look at the Google book sources, almost all are from *American* libraries, like Harvard, Princeton, NYPL, etc -- even for the early British periodicals!|
The British can freely utilize their work via our work...>
<Public Domain only when viewed in the United States - Works published outside the US prior to 1923 are in the public domain; however, due to the variations in copyright law in countries outside the US, it is estimated that 1878 is the earliest date foreign works may still be under copyright. Therefore, users accessing the volume from US IP addresses will have access to the works published outside the US between 1878 and 1923; however, users with non-US IP addresses will not.>
Truth be told, Americans have more rights to British works than we do.
<we have zero access to their work via their work.
(I'm thinking about Bell's Journal, London Illustrated News, and Illustrated Sports and Drama News, among others)>
These are all available via www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk for about a measly $100 a year.
|Jan-11-18|| ||zanzibar: Ph. Bloch, sometimes P. Bloch, chessplayer from Breslau, circa 1860, maybe this guy?|
|Jan-11-18|| ||hemy: I submitted the bio of Israel Rabinovich-Barav - German chess federation master and one of the first Israeli chess masters.
Any help with editing and with research will be appreciated. |
<tabanus>, are you busy?
<chesshames.com> It is the proper time to publish the 35 games - zip file that can be downloaded from https://www.dropbox.com/s/ffef59sxn...
Here is the picture - https://www.dropbox.com/s/266eqxovj...
It make sense to replace the photo album at http://www.chessgames.com/documents... with translated to English -
I will also submit correction slip (Berlin, Springer's club's tournament, February 1928) to the currently published game I Rabinovich-Barav vs B Koch, 1947
|Jan-12-18|| ||Tabanus: <hemy> I'll have a look later. Unless one of the "most helpful" candidates beats me to it.|
|Jan-12-18|| ||MissScarlett: Suggested new Country Code: <SHT>|
|Jan-12-18|| ||MissScarlett: Suggested POTD: Mbongeni C Sithole|
|Jan-12-18|| ||zanzibar: <MissS> there's an old adage - a joke's only funny once... unless you're on <CG>!|
Anyways, I think the new CC should be <S*H>.
Oh, and speaking of swarmy s*holes, check out this comment...
Mbongeni C Sithole (kibitz #2)
<TheFocus> - you've got zero credibility in the swarmy department dude. SAD.
|Jan-12-18|| ||TheFocus: <zanzibar> Quit pouting and wipe the snot from your nose.|
|Jan-12-18|| ||zanzibar: <Focus>
Balanced, free, and fair...
that's my motto!
|Jan-12-18|| ||TheFocus: <zanzibar: <Balanced, free, and fair>|
Never give away for free what someone else will pay you for - <TheFocus>.
|Jan-12-18|| ||zanzibar: Speaking of free, can anybody freely find a higher-resolution image of this chess history map:|
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