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May-09-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: There's a notation error in <[White "Feigin, Movsa"] [Black "Bergs, Teodors"]>, viz., 24...Dxe5. Were the games submitted together? If so, this one error may have sparked a collective rejection.
May-09-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: Well spotted <MissS>. 24...Dxe5 was the error in that game. But there is no collective rejection, only the one game was rejected for that reason.

<Jess> I vaguely recall an impossible "Nf8" move being declared in one of the other games. That is most likely due to either a missing N move disambiguation earlier, or even a missing part of the score.

BTW, please, the correct notation for castling <is> O-O (two capital o's), 0-0 is wrong! :)

May-09-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<MissScarlett> Genius! That is surely the reason for the rejection of this particular game.

I just retested and my <Shredder> "helpfully" changed 24...Dxe5 to 24...Qxe5.

Possibly because Shredder is German, it understands "Dame = Queen" or some such.

There could be no trigger effect, because the other 8 games I submitted with this batch were published. All 11 pgns went into the same <PGN upload Utility> box. Only 3 were rejected. Thanks to you, we know the reason for one rejection.

Your discovery may provide a clue to the other two scores I posted here. There may be some hidden Germans in the other two scores?

May-09-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: Hmm, then again, there is this issue:

Movsa Feigin

Mosva Feigin

BTW, you may be pleased to hear that we took some time out to work on the Opening Explorer, and it should be almost perfectly updated now. :)

May-09-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

It took me 10 minutes to figure out that I had made the mistake on the spelling.

I'm so sorry <Annie> and <Steamed colleagues>.

Now I will submit a corrections slip asking the wrong spelling player page to be folded in to the correct spelling player page.

*face palm emotji*

May-09-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Annie> Thanks so much for fixing up the <Opening Explorer>. Excellent news.

May-09-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: Why would a misspelt name cause a rejection? The Source for the second game has a mistake <(25.20.1937)>; not that that is the issue to hand.
May-09-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

Ok I just now submitted this correction slip from the fake "Mosva Feigin" bio page which I stupidly created in the first place:

<The correct spelling for this player is Movsa Feigin. This bio page should be deleted, and the games should be moved to the proper Movsa Feigin bio page: Movsa Feigin >

May-09-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Miss Scarlett> thank you again- the correction you found on the date from the second game is very valuable to my archive:

http://www.periodika.lv/periodika2-...

May-09-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: <Jess> fixed. :)

<MissS> it shouldn't cause a rejection, except as a duplicate if resubmitted because the submitter couldn't find their game. But then there would be a notice about that, rather than a notation error notice (these I can see, if I check the report, although I won't do that with large game submission batches, but I can if the submitter asks especially, and I don't miss the request). ;) And I saw a notation warning on this game. So there was probably another error as well.

May-09-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Annie> Your admin awesomeness knows no bounds. I, and Latvian chess afficianados (if there are any), will be very happy with your work.

<Miss Scarlett> Your awesomeness knows no bounds either. We are lucky to have you working as an editor, and to have you monitoring the <Biographer's Bistro>.

May-09-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: ***

Hi Jessica,

I do not have Shredder III (or any Shredder I or II) so did not know if it copied the whole PGN with labels.

I write my stuff for RHP in Chesspad and when I paste a game I've noted up in Notepad in it does not matter if castles is a number or letters or indeed a mixture (small letter o and a zero) it lets them in.

But RHP for a while did not take O-O just zero-zero. (just tested it - now both sail in.)

***

May-09-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Sally Simpson> Thank you for further clarification.

This Biographer Bistro is a superb place- I have never seen anything like this elsewhere on the internet.

There are so many people with various areas of expertise who pitch in to help here.

May-09-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: ***

Agree - Chess is the sea where elephants and gnats can drink.

Here they can also swap ideas, scratch each others back, enlighten and help....and argue with each other....mostly argue with each other. ;)

***

May-10-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Good Morning>: Sadly, still cleaning up a mess I made in the first place.

This game here- P List vs M Feigin, 1937

Is a duplicate of this game- P List vs M Feigin, 1937

Except the duplicate game here P List vs M Feigin, 1937 has been published with an incomplete score.

The game with the complete score is here: P List vs M Feigin, 1937

So we should delete the duplicate game with the incomplete score.

===

I just submitted this correction slip:

<This is a duplicate game with an incomplete score.

The original game with complete score is here: P List vs M Feigin, 1937

Please delete the duplicate game with incomplete score.>

May-10-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: OK, <Jess>, I deleted the incomplete duplicate game.

One of your new submissions was rejected for notation. Since I know how curious you folks are, I will let you see this example of what the report for these things looks like: :)

[Event "Tournament"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1934.11.04"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Apsenieks, Fricis"]
[Black "Feigin, Movsa"]
[Result "0-1"]
[EventDate "1934.??.??"]
[Source "Krusta-mikla. Sahs. Bridzs. Nr.40 (10.11.1934)"]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.a3 b6 4.Nc3 Bb7 5.Bg5 Be7 6.Bxf6 Bxf6 7.e4 d6 8.Nf3 Nd7 9.Rc1 0-0 10.Bd3 c5 11.0-0 cxd4 12.Nb5 Nc5 13.Nbxd4 Nxe4 14.Qc2 d5 15.Rfd1 Qe7 16.cxd5 exd5 17.Nf5 Qe6 18.Nd4 Qe5 19.f3 Rac8 20.Qb1 Rxc1 21.Qxc1 Bg5 22.Qc2 Nc5 23.g3 Bf6 24.Bf1 Ne6 25.f4 Qe4 26.Qxe4 dxe4 27.Nxe6 fxe6 28.Bc4 Bd5 29.Bxd5 exd5 30.Rd5 Bxb2 31.a4 g6 32.Ne7+ Kf7 33.Nc6 Rc8 34.Nxa7 Rc2 35.Nb5 Ke6 36.Rd6+ Kf5 37.h3 e3 38.Rd1 Ke4 39.Nd6+ Kf3 40.Rf1+ Kxg3 41.f5 Rg2+ 42.Kh1 Rh2+ 43.Kg1 Rg2+ 44.Kh1 e2 45.Ne4+ Kxh3 46.Rf3+ Kh4 47.Re3 Bd4 0-1
------

Match (Fricis Apsenieks) with (13351,Fricis Apsenieks)
Match (Movsa Feigin) with (10713,Movsa Feigin)
1956548 OK (?) -> 'd5' == R
'h7' == p
'g3' == P
'b6' == p
'e4' == p
'g1' == K
'h2' == P
'b2' == b
'g8' == k
'f8' == r
'f4' == P
'a7' == p
'g6' == p
'a4' == P

8 - - rk-
7 p - - -p
6 p - -p-
5 - -R- -
4 P- -pP -
3 - - - P
2 b - - P
1 - - - K
abcdefgh

Inserted game 1956548:1934:?:tid=96039:0-1 .

---

In these cases, the game gets inserted, and then immediately deleted. Which is why it can only be resubmitted after another day, after the "memory" of the deleted game gets purged, because if you resubmit it immediately, it will be rejected as a duplicate.

Just out of curiosity, I went over it myself, and corrected 2 notation errors:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.a3 b6 4.Nc3 Bb7 5.Bg5 Be7 6.Bxf6 Bxf6 7.e4 d6 8.Nf3 Nd7 9.Rc1 0-0 10.Bd3 c5 11.0-0 cxd4 12.Nb5 Nc5 13.Nbxd4 Nxe4 14.Qc2 d5 15.Rfd1 Qe7 16.cxd5 exd5 17.Nf5 Qe6 18.<N3d4> Qe5 19.f3 Rac8 20.Qb1 Rxc1 21.Qxc1 Bg5 22.Qc2 Nc5 23.g3 Bf6 24.Bf1 Ne6 25.f4 Qe4 26.Qxe4 dxe4 27.Nxe6 fxe6 28.Bc4 Bd5 29.Bxd5 exd5 30.<Rxd5> Bxb2 31.a4 g6 32.Ne7+ Kf7 33.Nc6 Rc8 34.Nxa7 Rc2 35.Nb5 Ke6 36.Rd6+ Kf5 37.h3 e3 38.Rd1 Ke4 39.Nd6+ Kf3 40.Rf1+ Kxg3 41.f5 Rg2+ 42.Kh1 Rh2+ 43.Kg1 Rg2+ 44.Kh1 e2 45.Ne4+ Kxh3 46.Rf3+ Kh4 47.Re3 Bd4 0-1

Feel free to resubmit the game tomorrow. :)

May-11-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Annie> Thanks so much for being so thorough, not to mention patient.

When I'm working from contemporaneous Latvian journals, there is no such thing as a score that doesn't have mistakes in the original publication. A "clean score" from these journals is a rarity, though I have yet to find one that could not be reconstructed- thanks to my chess engine assistant.

Sometimes it takes me hours, working back and forth between the printed score and my chess engine, in order to reconstruct a score.

Only in the last week did I realize that my Chess engine has been "autocorrecting" certain kinds of faulty notation- so if the journal game score says <2.Qb4>, if that move delivers check, my engine will automatically add the "+" .

In the case of the 30.<Rd5> to <Rxd5> error that you found, and corrected (thank you), my engine automatically corrected <Rd5> to <Rxd5>. This is a problem, because until now I had only been checking score integrity by pasting my reconstructed scores from journals into my engine- then playing through the game on my engine. My engine cannot, and does not (thank god) autocorrect gross errors, such as illegal moves.

However, thanks to your diligence, I believe I understand how to solve this problem in future.

I'm going to put my engine up on the screen side by side with the game score that I have typed up from a journal.

Then I'm going to enter each move one at a time, as opposed to simply copying and pasting the entire score into my engine.

This way, I will be able to see immediately any discrepancy between the printed score and what actually goes in to my engine.

If my engine "autocorrects" a faulty typed score, such as 30.<Rd5> to 30.<Rxd5>, I will see it as it happens.

This will require a great deal more time, but anything is better than submitting flawed scores that get rejected, and that have to be fixed after they are already submitted.

I think it obvious that you are doing plenty enough admin work as it is, without having to clean up these messes.

Anyways it is so helpful that you share your work and your discoveries here in the Bistro, so that we uploaders can see exactly what is going on.

May-11-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: <When I'm working from contemporaneous Latvian journals, there is no such thing as a score that doesn't have mistakes in the original publication.>

Yes, I understand that. All of you game submitters do an enormous amount of valuable and very appreciated work, and deserve all the help I can give you.

<However, thanks to your diligence, I believe I understand how to solve this problem in future.>

Why not simply copy your engine's output and replace the text of your original pgn with it, once you are satisfied the game plays out as it is supposed to? That way, a lot of errors will end up being corrected, whether you even notice them or not. And you wouldn't have to feed the engine move by move.

Another option is to consult a less intelligent pgn player, that would be more likely to choke on the same errors. (Such as this one from Kosteniuk's site: http://pgnplayer.com/)

I do that too (and also copy the corrected pgn from it, once I have resolved all the choke points, back into the pgn to be submitted).

May-11-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Annie> What a grand suggestion!

I particularly like the idea of consulting a less intelligent pgn player, particularly since you have kindly provided his home address.

Further, I would be interested in finding less intelligent correspondence chess players, so as to prevent my rating from taking its usual whalloping when I enter tournaments at <kingscrusher's> website.

Heh... I just bookmarked the "little pgn player who couldn't."

I would never have imagined my trusty Shredder would turn on me in this way. It reminds me of the movie "Terminator."

May-12-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Stonehenge: Indrikis Kalnins = Heinricks Kalnins methinks.
May-12-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Stonehenge> I am sure you are correct-

Here is some corroboration from the Latvian Wikipedia page for <Indrikis Kalnins>:

<Indriķis Heinrihs Kalniņš (1895. gada 15. februāris, Rīga - 1968. gada 15. septembris Kalamazū) bija Latvijas un ASV šahists.>

https://lv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indri...

May-12-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Annie>

<Chessdreamer> has kindly examined all of the <Movsa Feigin> games in our database and discovered several faulty pgns I have submitted, and also one case of a duplicate game: Movsa Feigin (kibitz #38)

I have used the pgn template you kindly provided to find and correct the notation errors. In future I will be using this pgn template to check all of my submissions, since unlike my chess engine, it does not seem to "autocorrect" faulty notation: http://pgnplayer.com/

I created this games collection to show the mistakes <Chessdreamer> found, and to provide the corrections: Game Collection: Chessdreamer List of pgns CORRECTED WITH PGN VIE

I just finished checking all 137 published <Feigin> games, and it appears that there are no additional faulty pgns. <Chessdreamer> must also have checked every single game, in order to provide such an accurate list of my mistakes.

May-13-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: W W Gibberd

<Tab>, any idea on the cause of death? Or what he did post-university?

May-13-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <Miss> The newspaper is blurred but I think it says Bright's disease. See his page. And Sergey G Gorelov for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigh...

May-14-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: My tribute to <Annie>: Game Collection: Szirak 1985 and Game Collection: Szirak 1986 up for voting.

Not sure she wants it though :) And tournament books not read, again.

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