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Jun-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: I only noticed the one game, W Martin vs Blackburne, 1876. The other one was either not submitted or also rejected, but I don't remember it. Please resubmit if you have it.
Jun-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: It's done.
Jun-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: ...and processed without any trouble: Blackburne vs W Martin, 1876 :)
Jun-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: <Annie, Stonehenge, Steamed colleagues> These two players have exactly the same name:

1. Aleksandrov

and

2. Aleksandrov

The second one is <Aleksandrs Aleksandrovs> from Latvia.

Here is his Latvian wikipedia page: https://lv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleks...

And his name is spelled exactly the same in the <Encyclopedia of Latvian Chessplayers Vol. I, pp.A-27 to 29>

He participated in the Game Collection: Game Collection: Riga 1946 Fricis Apsenieks Memorial , and I would like to add 5 of his games to cg.com, but before I do that, the dual player pages have to be fixed, or they might appear on the wrong player page.

I hope they can appear on a future Aleksandrs Aleksandrovs player page.

Jun-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: Well, I changed it for now, but looking at the English Google Translation of that page is less than convincing: http://translate.google.com/transla...

He was born in St. Petersburg ("Petrograd"), and was a Russian Party worker, transferred to Latvia in the line of work. Why do you think his name should be recorded with Latvian spelling, under these circumstances?

Jun-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Annie> That's a worthy point, similar to the <Karlis Betins> vs <Karl Behting> case.

My sources are almost all in Latvian, so yes they are going to use Latvian spellings for the names. Sometimes this leads to different Latvian sources coming up with different "Latvianized" spellings for the same player- making it more difficult to correctly identify them.

The source for the pgns I collected is rusbase, where his name is listed as <A. Alecksandrov>. That's a hybrid English version of a Russian-Latvian spelling, which I don't think is the necessarily the best decision for us to follow.

http://al20102007.narod.ru/nat_tour...

I think we should list his name in English version of either Russian spelling or Latvian spelling, one or the other. I'm not a fan of the hybrid option. I'd be just as happy with <Alexander Alexandrov> as <Aleksandrs Aleksandrovs>, for example.

As far as I'm concerned, you can make the final decision on the new player page. The main thing is that you have fixed another duplicate name case, thank you!

Jun-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

Hmm except there is already an Alexander Alexandrov .

What do we do when more than one person has exactly the same name?

I was a little thrown off by <Alecksandrs> as well. I think it should be <Alecksanders>. Val Zemitis , a Latvian, is listed as the author of the <Encyclopedia of Latvian Chessplayers>, and he uses the <Alecksandrs> spelling as well. That doesn't mean that he or possibly a colleague didn't submit a version of the name that was copy/pasted from the Latvian Wikipedia page after running it through Google translate.

Anyways, I trust you to make the final decision on this player page.

Jun-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: We do have a solution to these cases - reminder: chessgames.com chessforum (archived)

I'm going to change the name to Alexander Alexandrov, and this would be a good chance for you to try out the [WhiteChessgamesID "86122"] or [BlackChessgamesID "86122"] tags. ;)

Jun-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Annie> Thank you!

I hadn't read aboot that before.

So for example, in this player name:

Alexander Alexandrov

104565 is the identifier. If there is another player with the exact same name, I include the player page identifier number in an ID tag amirite.

But what if the submitter doesn't bother to check the search player page function before sending in a pgn, and there are two player pages with the same name? In this case, the player page would be assigned randomly?

Jun-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: Yep. :)

I'm going to guess that the player with the lower pid would get the games, since he'll be the one the search will come across first. Mebbe. ;)

Jun-26-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

Well I think there are probably not that many pairs or triplets of identical names in the database to begin with.

Recently, I was thinking about a directly related matter about the pgn upload utility.

Really the most important two things that need to be done in order to prevent bozos such as myself from wrecking the website are:

Before submitting a pgn:

1. Check the exact spelling of the player names by searching the names in the database.

2. Check your pgns with a Chess engine before submitting them.

Because I was not doing these two things, and/or not doing them carefully enough, I made extra work for you, and for the long suffering <Stonehenge>.

What about prominently displaying 1. and 2. at the top of the <Please follow our guidelines> page on the pgn upload utility?

I noticed <Stonehenge> making several impassioned pleas in the Bistro for people to make sure the player names they submit match the correct player names in our database.

It only takes a second to mess up the database by ignoring 1. and 2., or simply by not knowing about them.

I understand that submitters should be expected naturally to check their game scores, but with Olga the scores have to be absolutely correct- no missing periods, no missing "check" notations and such.

But if you just copy paste your score into a chess engine and then copy and paste the score again into a kibbutz box or a notepad file, any errors will automatically have been corrected by the engine.

This wouldn't be such a problem if Olga simply rejected pgn scores with a missing period, but it doesn't. It publishes the score but it won't play past the point of error.

Anyways, I think adding 1. and 2. to the pgn guideline page might help forestall such problems.

Jun-26-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Annie>

I'm about to send in some new games to the new Alexander Alexandrov page you created.

I copied the tag formatting for identical player name uploads that <Daniel> suggested:

[Event "Casual"]
[Site "Berlin GER"]
[Date "1999.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "-"]
[Result "0-1"]
[White "A Ivanov"]
[Black "Hans Schach"]
[WhiteChessgamesID "41447"]

[Event "Fricis Apsenieks Memorial"]
[Site "Riga LAT"]
[Date "1946.12.??"]
[EventDate "1946.12.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Alexandrovs, Alexanders"]
[Black "Zvirbulis, Martins"]
[WhiteChessgamesID "86122"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Source "rusbase"]

Jun-26-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

Er no this is the template I'll be using, with the new player name spelled correctly:

[Event "Fricis Apsenieks Memorial"]
[Site "Riga LAT"]
[Date "1946.12.??"]
[EventDate "1946.12.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Alexandrov, Alexander"]
[Black "Zvirbulis, Martins"]
[WhiteChessgamesID "86122"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Source "rusbase"]

Jun-26-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: I was kinda wondering about that... :D
Jun-26-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Annie> Yes since the last time long suffering <Stonehenge> was in here I have been trying hard to avoid sending in any more (incorrect) player names...

face palm emoti.

Why can't we has emotis again? I seem to recall <Daniel> answered this question several times, and he had a good reason for not allowing them.

But I long ago forgot what the reason was. I would try the "manual emotis" you guys make but I have yet to find an instructional video for absolute beginners...

XD ?^^*

Jun-26-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Doctor Frankenstein>

IT'S ALIVE

Alexander Alexandrov

Jun-26-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

These are duplicate games:

This one was mislabeled as "1934" so I fixed that, in the process discovering the duplicate:

F Apsenieks vs Maroczy, 1933 gid=1094404

In addition, this game has 1 more ply than the duplicate, and it is the only one with existing and valuable Kibbutzing on it.

Here is the other game, which gives the same score, except one ply less:

F Apsenieks vs Maroczy, 1933 =1281164

The olimpbase pgn for this game explains why there are two versions:

http://www.olimpbase.org/pgn4web/an...

"Source Kashdan #122; La Strategie 133, p. 177 (adds 31 Qe5 Qd1+)"

I put this in the Bistro before submitting a correction slip right away, because I'm not sure which score we should keep.

Whatever we decide is the best score to use, I hope we can retain the kibbutzing on this one: F Apsenieks vs Maroczy, 1933 gid=1094404

Jun-26-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: Heh... The uploader absolutely <loved> those tags. :)

Hmm, one game has kibitzing, the other appears in a couple of collections. In these cases, instead of deleting one game, they can be merged, so the second one will appear as an "alternate score". I will merge into the game that has the kibitzing.

Jun-26-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Annie> That's excellent! We can preserve both scores within one game.

In some cases though, where there are two competing scores, such as when analysis is mistakenly published as part of the pgn, I think it crucial to make the "true score" the sole score.

I came across an example of this today on this game here, where the evidence for the "true score" seems overwhelming:

F Apsenieks vs Euwe, 1924

Jun-27-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Three Capa memorials now up for voting. An attempt to make this event squeeky clean (results-wise) back to 2002.

You do the rest ;)

Jun-29-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: I should not complain too much, but in http://www.chessgames.com/perl/edit..., Wojtaszek's win and Bruzon's loss should be marked in yellow. With this not working, it is much more difficult to spot missing games and wrong game results.
Jun-30-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: Unless anyone demurs, could we merge the incorrectly attributed games of Djuro Szabo with those of Imre Szabo?
Jun-30-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: <MissS> I wouldn't mind doing that, it's the suggestion to change Imre to Emeric that I don't really like. :)

The original Hungarian name is Imre. There are many cases of Hungarian names where better known foreign versions were adopted for international use, for the simple reason that nobody outside of Hungary could possibly pronounce them at all, let alone correctly. :D

But Imre is not THAT difficult. It's pronounced Im-reh (<Im> as in "imp", not as in "I'm", and ,<reh> like "meh"). Hmm, I could make a pronunciation file for him, come to think of it. ;)

Jul-01-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: Did I submit a game <Blackburne-Lee, 1892> yesterday?
Jul-01-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: I had several games rejected recently for already being in the database. Could it be this one? Blackburne vs F J Lee, 1892
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