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Aug-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Miss Scarlett>

<And what's more, most of this prized manual work is unlikely to catch any data problems because it largely involves rote copying from the dodgy databases in the first place>

In the main, that is correct- but crucially not always correct. In the Latvian history work we have done over the last year, we have unearthed many gross attribution errors from databases and corrected them. We then become the only database with the correct information, and this can be fed back to the source databases.

This process is already underway with 365Chess.com making corrections based on the work done here at cg.com.

As mentioned, I have a correction pending with them at the moment on <Leo Forgacs> at the <Klaus Junge Memorial>.

I'd prefer our database not having players participating in important historical tournaments long after they have died.

Aug-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <if you tell me Britbase features good accuracy, I'm inclined to believe you.>

Here's one of John C Saunders sources I saw the other day:

<Source: I can't remember but I think it was an Islington club bulletin (JS)>

What to do in such cases? Can <Britbase> itself be given as a source? Or must its cited source(s) always be used? Must these sources be tracked down, where possible, in case they reference even more original or authentic sources?

I think you're in danger of making the perfect the enemy of the good.

Aug-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Miss Scarlett>

Good example. I have come across similar examples in the past. For a time I was including both primary and secondary information in the source tags, until I realized that the tag has a limited number of characters, and my long tag text was being cut off. Nowadays, I would list <Britbase> as the source. I know this is imperfect, but it is still better than a blank source tag.

Better still, in such a case one could list <Britbase> in the source tag and then kibbutz the more detailed provenance underneath the game after it has been uploaded.

<making perfect the enemy of the good>

I would say <preferring to err on the side of a smaller sample of accurate pgns than on a larger sample of pgns with dubious provenance>.

Mainly, getting the actual player/players wrong should be avoided at almost any cost. The worst case scenario from my perspective is doing the work to find the correct player/players from a contemporaneous primary source, and then having that work erased due to a mass database upload that repeats the error I corrected.

Aug-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Miss Scarlett>

<Must these sources be tracked down, where possible, in case they reference even more original or authentic sources?>

That is a serious point, and I would say no, although anyone who undertook such work would be commended. I wouldn't go that far myself.

Aug-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

Just one more example that makes me nervous.

Let's say we were starting our cg.com database from scratch.

Say we uploaded every game, en masse, from 365Chess.com.

If we had done that two months ago, every single <Tenis Melngailis> game would be an <Emilis Melngailis> game.

They had every single Tenis game being played by his father.

Thanks to their diligent investigation of contemporaneous primary sources (Latvian chess jourals), <hemy> and <chesshistoryinterest> sorted out the <Melngailis> family. Thanks to them, we now have accurate listings for both.

So now does 365Chess, because I submitted correction slips to them and they processed them. As it turned out, originally they did not have even a single game played by <Emilis Melngailis>.

This more cautious practice reduces, rather than increases and propagates, historical entropy.

The entire point of history writing is to reduce entropy.

Aug-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<whiteshark> Thank you for your investigation of the "Heinola" mystery.

For now, this is how I put his name in the pgn- I won't be uploading it any time soon, just in case you discover that "Herman" is indeed his first name.

[Event "Hermanis Mattisons Memorial"]
[Site "Hanau GER"]
[Date "1947.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Zemgalis, Elmars"]
[Black "Heinla, H"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "?"]
[EventDate "1947.09.27"]
[Source "Donaldson, 'Elmars Zemgalis' p.119"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. exd5 Qxd5 5. dxc5 Bxc5 6. Ngf3 Ne7 7. Bc4 Qd6 8. Qe2 Qc7 9. Ne4 Nf5 10. Nxc5 Qxc5 11. O-O Nc6 12. c3 O-O 13. Rd1 b6 14. a4 Rd8 15. Bg5 Rxd1+ 16. Rxd1 h6 17. Bf4 g5 18. Bc1 Qe7 19. h4 g4 20. Nd4 Ncxd4 21. Qxg4+ Kh8 22. cxd4 Qxh4 23. Qxh4 Nxh4 24. d5 Nf5 25. dxe6 Bxe6 26. Bxe6 fxe6 27. Rd7 Rc8 28. Bd2 a5 29. Bc3+ Kg8 30. g4 Nh4 31. Kh2 Nf3+ 32. Kg3 Ng5 33. f3 Rc6 34. Rb7 Rc4 35. Rxb6 Rxa4 36. Rb5 Ra1 37. Rxa5 Rf1 38. Kg2 Rd1 39. Ra7 Rd6 40. Rg7+ Kf8 41. Rg6 Rd3 42. Rxh6 Nxf3 43. Rf6+ Ke7 44. Rxf3 1-0

Aug-25-19  hemy: <JFQ> H. Heinla = Heino Heinla.

"Vaba Eesti Sõna" ("Free Estonian Word"), November 8, 1952, p. 9:

K. Tullus became a champion in Philadelphia.
Philadelphia North Chess Club 1952 championship won Koit Tullus, with 6.5/7.
2nd to 5th place shared current United States Junior and US Philadelphia Township champion Saul Wachs, Huth, Seibert and Walton with 5/7.\

Heino Heinla scored 4.5/7, coming in 6th-7th-8th with Haimowitz and Koppanyga.
Estonian was the only contestant to come out of the tournament without losing game. The North Chess Club is a champion in the Philadelphia area.

https://dea.digar.ee/cgi-bin/dea?a=...

***

Heino Heinla (right), Estonian refugee, 27, the last Euro- pean DP to receive a US visa, is congratulated by Harry N. Rosenfield, commissioner of the US Displaced Persons Commission, while Robert J. Corkery, European coordi- nator, and two-year-old Kaja Heinla look on. Mrs. Heinla holds their baby son, Uku. (USDPC photo by K. Bethke)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gv6n6h7d7...

***

"Vaba Eesti Sõna" ("Free Estonian Word"), October 24, 1996, p. 16.

Heino Heinla
born December 30, 1923, Tallinn
died October 15, 1966, Morristown, NJ

daughter Kaja Telmet, sons: Uku, Ole, Taavi.

https://dea.digar.ee/cgi-bin/dea?a=...

Aug-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <hemy> strikes again :)
Aug-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<hemy> Thanks so much... now we know his full name and also his nationality. Yet more significant progress in your recent hard work on DP events.

Aug-25-19  hemy: <died October 15, 1966>
I made a typo mistake, it should be October 15, 1996.
Aug-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: I just picked up a copy of Gino Di Felice's Chess Results 1747-1900 and was flipping through it and noticed the various cable matches between the US and England are identified as "radiomatch". Seriously?

Not sure if I can trust anything from a source that thinks those matches were played by radio... is there actually something useful in these volumes or should I consign my copy to the donation bin of my local public library?

Aug-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<jnpope> I don't have that volume, but I have an almost complete set. Over the years I have found <Di Felice> to be a tremendously helpful guide in identifying crosstables and players. Errors abound though, as you point out. Ideally, any data you get from his series should be corroborated.

So for example in the case of Latvian chess history, <Di Felice> has proven very useful in tandem with searches of contemporaneous Latvian journals. Many times I have found pgns in these journals in which the event in question is not listed. By examining the game results against <Di Felice's> many crosstables, I have been able to identify many of the relevant events that the pgns correspond to. <Di Felice> has also been very helpful in refining my search terms in an online search of the Latvian periodical websites. If I can narrow down exactly what I'm looking for, it's a lot easier to find the result I want.

This process becomes even more useful when <Gaige's> "Chess Personalia" is added to the mix.

If I'm still in doubt, I have had excellent success in posting my questions here in the Biographer's Bistro. There are many helpful folks in here with big chess libraries, and ninja internet skills in a variety of languages.

Aug-26-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: http://www.chicagochessleague.org/c... has a chessplayer U. Nurme in Chicago 1978-79. Looking in Ancestry.com, this must be Udo Nurme, b. 29 Jan 1927 in Põltsamaa Estonia, d. 13 Sep 2001 in Glenview, Illinois (just N of Chicago).

Illinois Federal Naturalization Records has <Udo Nurme>, b. 29 Jan 1927, immigrated New York 9 August 1955, married to Rosina (b. in Selci Yugoslavia) in Chicago 9 April 1960, child Linda b. 1960.

Passenger Lists of Displaced Persons, 1946-1971: Udo Nurme, b. 29 Jan 1927 in Põltsamaa, and wife Gertraude b. 26 July 1925 in Zittau. From camp Blankensee (SW of Berlin), departed from Bremerhaven 26 Nov 1951, heading for Canada.

https://www.geni.com/people/Udo-Nur..., was there a chessplayer Lev Nussberg?

Aug-26-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Sirp, 20 August 1993 p. 13 (column 3) mentions some chessplayers and also Udo Nurme in Chicago.

https://dea.digar.ee/cgi-bin/dea?a=...

Aug-26-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<Tab> thanks! Now all <Hermanis Mattisons Memorial 1947> players are identified.

Aug-28-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

Two games only listed for <H Ludwig>, and if labeled correctly I don't see how they could have been played by the same person.

P Schroter vs H Ludwig, 1932

H Ludwig vs S Schoenfeld, 1991

The 1991 game event tag lists "German Jr. championship." A 60 year old is not going to be playing in a junior championship.

Also I was wondering if this might be the "Ludwig" who played a German team game against <Elmar Zemgalis>?

[Event "Team Match"]
[Site "Germany GER"]
[Date "1949.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[Result ""]
[White "Zemgalis, Elmars"]
[Black "Ludwig"]
[ECO "?"]
[EventDate "1949.??.??"]
[Source "Donaldson, 'Elmars Zemgalis' p.129"]

Aug-28-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: <JFQ: Zemgalis-Ludwig>

Differing from this the Donaldson CD has the game as follows:

[Date "1949.03.06"]
[Black "Ludwig, Dr"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A16"]
[EventDate "1949.05.??"]
[EventType "team"]
[SourceTitle "Zemgalis"]

1. c4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. Qa4+ c6 6. Qd4 Nf6 7. Qxd8+ Kxd8 8. d4 Bg7 9. e4 Nbd7 10. Ng5 Ke8 11. Bc4 e6 12. e5 Nd5 13. Nge4 Bf8 14. O-O b6 15. Bxd5 cxd5 16. Ng3 Ba6 17. Rd1 Rc8 18. a3 Be7 19. Bd2 f6 20. f4 Kf7 21. Nf1 Rhf8 22. Ne3 Kg7 23. Re1 fxe5 24. fxe5 Bg5 25. Rad1 Bxe3+ 26. Rxe3 Rf5 27. g4 Rf4 28. Rg3 Rf7 29. Rh3 Bc4 30. Rb1 Nb8 31. b3 Ba6 32. Bg5 Kg8 33. b4 Bc4 34. b5 Nd7 35. Bh6 Ra8 36. a4 a6 37. bxa6 Rxa6 38. Rc1 Ra8 39. Ne4 Rxa4 40. Nd6 Re7 41. Bg5 Rg7 42. Bh6 Re7 43. Rf3 Ra8 44. Bg5 Rg7 45. Bh6 Re7 46. Nxc4 Rc8 47. Nd6 Rxc1+ 48. Bxc1 1-0

Moreover Megabase Database has this game with <Karl-Heinz Ludwig>.

So it might be <Prof. Dr. jur. Karl-Heinz Ludwig> * 13.11.1921 † 30.01.2017 who was a German jurist and president of the Nuremberg Higher Regional Court.

Obituary: https://www.sw-nuernberg-sued.net/i...

Wiki-DE https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl-...

Aug-28-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen:

<whiteshark> Thanks again!

That is the same game Donaldson includes in his <Elmars Zemgalis> biography, but the pgn has more information. Very helpful.

Aug-31-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <Annie> Please standardize :)

Russian Superfinals (Women) (2007)
Russian Championship Superfinal (Women) (2009)
60th Russian Women's Superfinal (2010)
Russian Women's Superfinals (2011)
Russian Women's Superfinals (2012)
Russian Superfinals (Women) (2013)
Russian Superfinals (Women) (2014)
Russian Superfinals (Women) (2015)
Russian Superfinals (Women) (2016)
Russian Superfinals (Women) (2017)
Russian Championship Superfinal (Women) (2018)
Russian Championship Superfinal (Women) (2019)

Aug-31-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Thanks Annie. I just found another thing: the games in CG labeled "Russian Women's Championship" 2006 with Site = Orel RUS are in fact "Russian Championship Higher League (Women)" (2006). CG has only 5 games from the women's Superfinal 2006. If there's a tid, perhaps you could fix it.
Sep-03-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: If anyone has access to the <American Chess Bulletin> of 1950, could they check to see whether <David Lawson> explained the circumstances behind his discovery of the Morphy-Stanley game, as described here? Game Collection: 2 Morphy vs Stanley Odds Match ( Pawn and a Move
Sep-05-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Perhaps I should clarify... Korbut vs I Zakurdjaeva, 2006 and the other 126 games of Russian Women's Championship (2006) should have Event = Russian Championship Higher League (Women). 365Chess has this error too, and does not have the Superfinal games.
Sep-08-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Annie K.: OK, folks, good news to those of you who submit old games: you don't have to include the [ECO "?"] tags anymore - the software will now accept games without ECO tags too. :)
Sep-10-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: The "vote on collections" button is flashing red again.
Sep-10-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: Thanks for voting!

<Annie> Pls add "na" to the middle name of Ekaterina Valentinov Kovalevskaya. I missed that one.

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