< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 660 OF 670 ·
|Sep-28-17|| ||zanzibar: RE- 3-alpha country codes
A quick review for some wondering what the story is...
First - 3-alpha just means 3-letter codes, in comparison, say, to 2-letter codes.
Second - why follow FIDE? Why not go ISO?
Well, FIDE is chess, and so are we - that's the quick answer.
And ISO isn't always the way to go, compare TCP/IP stack vs. OSI (ISO/IEC 7498-1)
(Never heard of OSI 7-layer model - oh, lucky you)
* * * * *
A simple example is ENG, missing from ISO:
I think it's pretty clear we chess-types believe in the adage:
"God save the Queen" (and ENG)
Besides ENG, there's other old-time favorites like WLS and SCO, etc.
* * * * *
Now, generally if you do find a country code in ISO it will be the same as FIDE (or, if you prefer CG). But not always.
FIDE, thinking of itself as belonging to the Olympic family tries to conform to that standard, which isn't always the same as ISO.
It's been a long time since I did all this work, and I have fully refreshed my memory about it - but I don't think the exceptions are worth worrying too much about - just use the CG codes as they exist and you should be fine.
* * * * *
I do agree with <HMM>'s sentiments (and others) about Gibraltar and Isle of Man - those probably deserve a 3-alpha code, even if their federation association is different.
E.g. Guernsey gets its own code.
I mention this also as an example where the FIDE and ISO codes differ:
ISO = GGY
FIDE = GCI
|Sep-29-17|| ||Tabanus: Latvia: FIDE has LAT, ISO has LVA. I found about 15 differences in a short time, and think there are many more (from memory: Lebanon, Cambodia, Slovenia, Madagascar, Seychelles, US and British Virgin Islands). Only to lose the list when getting the message "This page cannot be displayed".|
|Sep-29-17|| ||chessgames.com: <why follow FIDE? Why not go ISO? > You could easily ask the question in reverse. I believe some months ago we did just that, and hashed through the issue, and finally concluded that both lists are just slightly insufficient for the needs of a historical database. Therefore we settled on a hybrid which was "mostly FIDE" but resorts to other codes when the need arises. Thus was born FIDE Country Codes.|
If I'm wrong about any of that please correct me; that's the assumption I've been going by all this time, and I'm unclear on why it's suddenly become an issue again.
|Sep-29-17|| ||chessgames.com: BTW, I just changed the 3000+ games from Chess Olympiad (2016) all to read "Baku AZE".|
|Sep-29-17|| ||Tabanus: CG, I can agree with you and z that we use the FIDE Country Codes list. However,|
1) the list is FIDE's chess <federation> codes.
2) You write that <When possible, use the format "City XXX" where "XXX" represents the <alpha-3 country code>>, but when clicking on <alpha-3 country code> one gets <not that> but the FIDE federation codes (which you call FIDE Country Codes).
3) For this reason, you cannot add e. g. IMN to the list: IMN is neither a FIDE federation nor a FIDE country.
4) Possible solution: rename the list and the link names to it.
Silly details, I know.
|Sep-29-17|| ||chessgames.com: <1) the list is FIDE's chess <federation> codes.> That is a distinction I was oblivious to. You're right, just change our nomenclature and there's no problem. Thank you for clearing that up.|
|Sep-29-17|| ||Tabanus: CG, perhaps call it "CG's Country Codes" or just "Country Codes" or something (you decide). Then when the list opens (with the title e. g. Country Codes), perhaps a subtext that it's mainly based on FIDE's federation codes (old and new), with the addition of other countries from the ISO list.|
|Sep-29-17|| ||gauer: Country codes (like the "Internet" site marked in a site field earlier this week, or a correspondence game, or on the Atlantic Ocean (en-route to Cambridge springs - via boat) or Soyuz 9 Cosmonauts vs Ground Control, 1970 (outer space...)).|
Should there be a 3-letter code for Internet, postal (I've heard of postal players continuing a game while out of country on vacation) or other maybe be an extra set to add into it? And when a Russian player plays an Olympiad team, but for ICSC (international committee for silent chess) or ICCD, then can his pid support having both the nation of origin and citizen tags, but also use a different team for some sets of different gids from different tid events?!
|Sep-29-17|| ||zanzibar: I was wondering was <tab> was driving at myself... |
We could call them <CG/FIDE Country Codes> or <FIDE(+) Codes>, as you wish. When it was first published it was, indeed, the FIDE Country Codes.
Who knows, if you submit IMN to FIDE they just might adopt it too.
(One could also make footnotes for the additional non-FIDE codes - the FIDE heritage/genesis should be emphasized somewhere on the page.)
Since FIDE shadows the Olympiad CC's, it would be remiss not to note that they also have a Wiki page (giving them equal status to ISO, or thereabouts):
|Sep-29-17|| ||offramp: I think they should be called Zanzibar Codes.
That would prevent ALL confusion.
|Sep-29-17|| ||zanzibar: Gosh golly, <offramp>, you can't name Country Codes after a country!|
|Sep-29-17|| ||zanzibar: Soyuz 9 Cosmonauts vs Ground Control, 1970|
Really is mis-sited - it should be
|Oct-01-17|| ||MissScarlett: Someone do the business and update Perry W Bridgman to <Percy W Bridgman>, and Willis Lamb to <Willis E Lamb>. I've submitted extra games in those names.|
At some point, we'll have to have a proper discussion on conventions for naming players.
|Oct-02-17|| ||Tabanus: Miss, send slips.
I requested "Douglas IMN" for the now finished event. The updated official ISO 3166-1 aplha-3 codes are here: https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#search/...
|Oct-02-17|| ||Tabanus: Bronstein - Boleslavsky Candidates Playoff (1950) :|
below the first diagram there is (for some reason) a "bad chessgames.com link". Perhaps someone knows what should be there.
|Oct-02-17|| ||Tabanus: <The updated official ISO 3166-1 aplha-3 codes are here>|
I suppose we'll use it when the FIDE code is not adequate. For now I can only think of the Isle of Man - there may be other sites.
|Oct-02-17|| ||MissScarlett: <Tab>, I assume it's Sokolsky vs Tolush, 1944.|
|Oct-02-17|| ||zanzibar: Agree with <MissS>, wonder what the actual change log on the game would say.|
It does potentially raise an issue about blithely updating games, an all too common a practice on <CG> I think.
|Oct-03-17|| ||chessgames.com: The renamed Chessgames Country Codes now includes IMN and we'll apply that to the recent open.|
|Oct-03-17|| ||Tabanus: Sokolsky vs Tolush, 1944 seems very likely, thanks. I put it in, but <Chessical> may disagree.|
CG, Chessgames Country Codes is more "liberating". We'll see how it works in practice. Allow me to nit-pick: the PGN Upload Utility page could have "London ENG" in the example instead of "London, England".
|Oct-03-17|| ||Tabanus: <CG> The list itself: based on Z's own error list, |
BUR Burinka Faso --> <Burkina> Faso
KSA Saudia Arabia --> <Saudi> Arabia
IVC Ivory Coast --> <CIV> Ivory Coast
|Oct-03-17|| ||zanzibar: Chessgames Country Codes page should mention FIDE heritage, and mark deviations where they occur (like Isle of Man, and as <HMM> mentioned, Gibraltar too).|
|Oct-04-17|| ||Tabanus: Gibraltar was GIB in FIDE not so long ago, but is now removed from their country list and the players have ENG. ISO has GIB, so no problem ;)|
<CG> Ivory Coast is indeed CIV (Côte d'Ivoire).
|Oct-04-17|| ||chessgames.com: <<CG> Ivory Coast is indeed CIV (Côte d'Ivoire).> OK, I thought that's how we had it. I put it back.|
|Oct-04-17|| ||Tabanus: <wonder what the actual change log on the game would say.> I think it has to do with the removal of duplicate games. Some while ago I requested a duplicate game removed, only to see afterwards that it was in someone's game collection. And now it's gone. It ruined a leaderboard..|
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