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The Chessgames.com Challenge
Team White vs Team Black
C U R R E N T   P O S I T I O N

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   Chessgames Challenge
Can large groups of chess fans team up to create a chess masterpiece? Find out in Chessgames Challenge!  You can vote for the move you think is best, and discuss the game with other members in the Kibitzer's Corner.

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[flip board] GAME OVER: 1/2-1/2 [flip board]

MOVES:
1.e4 a6 2.d4 b5 3.Nf3 Bb7 4.Bd3 e6 5.O-O Nf6 6.Qe2 c5 7.dxc5 Bxc5 8.e5 Nd5 9.a4 b4 10.c4 Ne7 11.Nbd2 Bxf3 12.Nxf3 Nbc6 13.Bf4 Qc7 14.Rad1 h6 15.Rfe1 O-O-O 16.Qe4 Nf5 17.h3 g5 18.Bh2 Qa7 19.Rd2 Rdg8 20.Qe2 Nfe7 21.Red1 h5 22.g4 hxg4 23.hxg4 Qc7 24.Be4 Nb8 25.Kg2 Ng6 26.Bxg6 Rxg6 27.Qe4 Qc6 28.Qxc6+ dxc6 29.Nd4 Rgg8 30.Nb3 Be7 31.Bg1 Rd8 32.Rxd8+ Rxd8 33.Rxd8+ Bxd8 34.Nc5 Nd7 35.Nxd7 Kxd7 36.b3 Be7 37.f3 c5 38.Be3 Ke8 39.f4 gxf4 40.Bxf4 Kf8 41.Bh6+ 1/2-1/2
GAME OVER thank you for playingit is now 11:55:19
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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 235 OF 236 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-16-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Thanks RV. I was curious about the team meeting thing too. We were pretty disorganized, so I admire our analysts who did bring everything together amid the chaos.
Feb-16-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  RandomVisitor: Here is an interesting quote from a Russian trainer named Dvoretsky:

"We cannot speak of any proper analysis when a lot of people sit down at the [chess]board together. The variations [proposed by the participants] flash past, and a mass of oversights occur, especially on the first few moves. The analysis [of the group] soon finds itself a long way from the starting point, and arrives at positions that may be interesting, but are certainly improbable."

Feb-16-07  RookFile: Well, Dvoretsky needs no introduction, he is almost universally recognized as the world's best trainer.
Feb-16-07  Archives: <At least one member of Team White (no names) obviously has no mirrors in his house.>

Well that is obv not me, I have many mirrors which I stare into all the time to admire my own reflection.

Thats why I always carry a spoon around in my pocket!

Feb-16-07  Artar1: <OhioChessFan: At least one member of Team White (no names) obviously has no mirrors in his house.>

God! That must be me! I'm sorry...I can't help being homeless. Maybe I'll use a store window the next time I shave!

Feb-16-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Nightranger: < Archives ... Thats why I always carry a spoon around in my pocket! >

lol.

< Artar1 > I thought you were starting to look a little scruffy. I thought it was just the lighting.

Feb-16-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: LOL Artar is going for the Don Johnson look. Per Archives and the spoon, that would give you an upside down image. That was the basis of a 2 Minute Mystery I read (and got right) years ago.
Feb-16-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  ganstaman: <OhioChessFan: LOL Artar is going for the Don Johnson look. Per Archives and the spoon, that would give you an upside down image. That was the basis of a 2 Minute Mystery I read (and got right) years ago.>

Doesn't that depend on which side of the spoon you're looking?

Feb-17-07  AugustAle: User: Bare Beginner and User: frank124c Welcome to "The Life". Two of my favorite avatars, One question?
Feb-17-07  AugustAle: Chessgames Challenge: Battle of the Brains, 2007
Feb-17-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheBB: Hey guys, join the new one already. I'm all alone with CG.com on team white, and I need company! :)
Feb-21-07  MaczynskiPratten: Congratulations to both teams (and to Chessgames for organising it). The game was fascinating, but even more fascinating was to see all the team discussions! Great teamwork on both sides, getting coherent strategies, so a draw was a fair result as neither team deserved to lose!
Feb-21-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: You carry a spoon in your pocket? I always carry a roll of quarters.
Feb-22-07  MaczynskiPratten: The more I look at it, the more fascinating this game is, and the less the St George's seems a "joke" opening. Compared with ... b6, a6/b5 gives that bit more hold in the centre, especially restraining c4. Strategically it looked as if White's plan round move 10 could be to exchange black-squared bishops, play Ne4-d6 and pursue a dark-square strategy. It's much to TB's credit they didn't let that happen, with Bxf3 (which looked strategically odd to me but was a finely timed tactical blow as White can't play Qxf3 at that point and must divert the Knight) and the follow-up play.

The line certainly doesn't look like a refutation, and nor do many others. For example, after 2 c4 e5, Black has a variant of 1 e4 e5 where White can't play the Italian Game or Ruy Lopez! I wonder if the best plan for White might be 3 f4, as in some Pirc and French lines, since White's centre is not yet being attacked. How about aiming for a position with white P's at c3, d4, e4, f4; B's at d3 and e3; N's at f3 and d2, Q at c2, K at g1 and R's at f1 and d1/e1. White prepares for a central breakthrough with e5, f5 or even d5. If Black tries d5, White locks the centre with e5. Where does the Black king go? The K side is weak on the b1-h7 diagonal, the centre looks unsafe after f5, and the Q side pawn formation is more fluid than in the game. I will freely admit this all only comes with several hours hindsight after seeing how the actual game went!

Feb-27-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <Wow, it seems our draw refusal really upset some people on Team Black.

It's not like we picked our noses and then wiped it on you all and then stuck a "kick me" sign on your back for extra measure.>

It didn't go over well then. In reading the kibitizing, I'm even more bothered that TW said after 36...Be7 "Hey, they didn't play the computer's best move". As soon as TW realized the point of the move, ie, that they were wrong, that is when they should have offered the draw. I still feel it was insulting for a team who'd completely missed the point of a move to continue playing on in the hopes we'd miss something obvious. Seems to me TW was the team missing something obvious.

Mar-01-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <Artar> I don't know if you mean Bc7 or Bb6 above, but either of those were also dead draws. I realized quickly you were one of two people on your team far ahead of the curve regarding the drawn position.

Mar-01-07  Artar1: Sorry...I made yet another typo...It was suppose to read 36...Bc7.

OhioChessFan: <Wow, it seems our draw refusal really upset some people on Team Black.

It's not like we picked our noses and then wiped it on you all and then stuck a "kick me" sign on your back for extra measure.>

While these comments are regrettable, in my unpublished analysis, both 36...Be7 and 36...Bc7 led to draws.

Deep Fritz 10, one of the programs that I use, preferred 36...Bc7. Most of my team members also felt that moving the bishop to c6 was a "safer" method of drawing with fewer complications for Black.

Later, I demonstrated that Black's fortress was impenetrable after 36...Be7, leading to a drawn position, but my conclusion was not accepted immediately by everyone on my team. Some of my team members were still being influenced by the now outdated dogma, espoused by some chess authorities, that 1...a6 is bad for Black and should lead to an automatic loss every time. Of course this is not the case as this and other correspondence chess games have clearly shown.

Thus, it may appear that Team White, as a whole, had feelings of animosity toward Team Black for having played 1...a6. I think the truth is that these feelings of ill will were mostly limited to a few individuals on both sides who became overly invested in our game on an emotional and personal level, allowing their self worth to rise or fall on the game's ultimate outcome.

Mar-01-07  Artar1: OhioChessFan:

I think a good game was played, and I certainly learned a lot. If I plan to play 1.e4 over the board, I will now have to prepare a serious response to 1...a6 or even 1...b5. I cannot take these moves lightly.

Mar-01-07  shr0pshire: <OhioChessFan> A minority of the members of white's team openly mocked our moves more than once. Maybe there was a certain hubris with those few players on team white where they felt compelled to win at all costs in a friendly game.

It is a shame they couldn't enjoy the game for what it was: a learning experience and fun.

Mar-01-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  ganstaman: <shr0pshire: Maybe there was a certain hubris with those few players on team white where they felt compelled to win at all costs in a friendly game.>

Hmmm, to win at all costs.... Well, let's review the actions that either team could possibly take in this setting:

1) Make a move.

Ok, so that's it. They can't do anything in this game other than move (there's no delaying the game, there's no making loud noises, there's no trash talking you can see). So please explain how they were attempting to win at all costs if all they did was make moves?

Did they trash talk on their own forum? I'd imagine it's just talk -- no animosity, just a team bonding, morale lifting thing.

Mar-02-07  Artar1: shr0pshire:

Without giving away any secretes, the Team White to which I currently belong is acting much differently from my first team experience. The mood is festive and convivial, making it a pleasure to participate. There's even kidding and joking, and not at Team Black's expense. How refreshing! The atmosphere is a friendly one, which is a welcome relief.

Jan-14-08  D.Observer: Why draw?
Jan-14-08  whatthefat: <D.Observer>

There is no way for either side to make progress.

Feb-06-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Today's Quote from the home page.

If it were just a question of winning or losing, if it were not possible to play a brilliant game, to make an incredible queen sacrifice, to play the occasional shocking or outrageous move, then I suspect many people would not play chess. It simply would not be worth it; such a difficult game and with so few rewards.

--- Jonathan Levitt

Feb-07-08  D.Observer: A candidate for the longest immobility is black's 'a' P.
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