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The Chessgames.com Challenge
Arno Nickel vs The World
C U R R E N T   P O S I T I O N

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Can a group of chess amateurs team up to beat a grandmaster?  Find out in the Chessgames Challenge!  You can vote for the move you think is best, and discuss the game with other members on this page.

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[flip board] GAME OVER: 1/2-1/2 [flip board]

MOVES:
1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nf3 d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 a6 8.O-O-O Bd7 9.f3 Be7 10.Be3 h5 11.Kb1 Qc7 12.Nxc6 Bxc6 13.Bd3 b5 14.Ne2 Rc8 15.Nd4 Nd7 16.h3 Bb7 17.Bg5 Bxg5 18.Qxg5 Kf8 19.c3 h4 20.Rhe1 Rh6 21.Bc2 Qb6 22.Re2 Nf6 23.Bb3 Qc5 24.Qe3 Re8 25.Red2 Rh5 26.Bc2 g6 27.Qe1 Qc7 28.Ne2 d5 29.exd5 Nxd5 30.Be4 Kg7 31.Qf2 Qe7 32.Nd4 Nf6 33.Bxb7 Qxb7 34.Nc2 Qc7 35.Ne3 Qg3 36.Qg1 Rg5 37.a3 a5 38.Qf1 Re5 39.Rd3 Qf4 40.Re1 Nd5 41.Nxd5 exd5 42.Rxe5 1/2-1/2
GAME OVER thank you for playingit is now 13:26:36
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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 931 OF 931 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-25-09  WhiteRook48: I KNEW this was going to be game of the day!
Feb-25-09  pagliacci19: thanks everyone, learned a lots.
Feb-25-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: I meant the draw offer <ganstaman>
Feb-26-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  lost in space: <<WhiteRook48>: I KNEW this was going to be game of the day!>

...and that the game was called WORLD PEACE.

:-)

Feb-26-09  kkshethin: Thank you all the participents (even if sometimes i do not agree with them). Thanks to the analysts from them i learned much. However i have to say few words regarding Draw.
There was a time in the game when everybody was worried about possible outcome. Nobody can deny that we have to sweat in order to save the game. Now after tide turned it is surprising that some of the people totally forget those worrying moments and started voicing to continue for win eventhough nobody gave any plausible line of winning
Feb-26-09  WhiteRook48: a win and a draw against Nickel is amazing.
Feb-26-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  ganstaman: <OhioChessFan: I meant the draw offer <ganstaman>>

Now I'm even more confused. Are you saying that what you were saying is: "I'm still waiting for confirmation that it is customary in CC games to offer a draw based on [a draw offer that] will happen 3 plies later."

I still don't see how my response isn't appropriate.

Feb-26-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Message on my forum on the matter <gansta>
Feb-26-09  patzer2: GM Arno Nickel, thanks for such an instructive, interesting and well played game. Perhaps you could have found winning chances in the complex Rook sac line given above by kb2ct. I look forward to your analysis.
Feb-26-09  Nite4k: Congratulations to both <GM Arno Nickel> and <The World Team> for a hard fought and well played game!

GMAN considered the position "very complicated" after our <10...h5!?> but said he needed more time to be able to find the best lines and consequently played cautiously not to lose after he gained the advantage that made him confident he was going to win.

So understandably he must feel some disappointment that he did not press his advantage and was forced to offer the draw.

On the other hand, after 10...h5, the World team had to find the most accurate defensive moves to secure the draw.

I am happy with securing a win and a draw in our 2 encounters against such a formidable CC grandmaster as Arno.

Again, congratulations to both sides!

Now onward! Let's see if we can secure any opening advantage out of the Slav against Mikhail Umansky...

Feb-27-09  chesscard: First of all, congratulations on the draw!

Here is my analysis of your game (I followed parts of it, enjoying and also learning on the way)

1) it is a very good result considering the position in the early middle game .

2)Black played the opening and early middlegame very weakly, and should have lost this game. (Black crossed the safety of drawing line due to 3-4 mistakes).

3)White did not make any important mistakes, but his 16 h3?! was a slightly weak move, (black should have played 16...h4, immediately equalizing) But he also did not take the responsability of complicating the game when he had a large advantage.

4) Mistakes: 15...Nd7, and especially 16...Bb7? were weak moves. There were a couple of second best moves in the following moves until move 24 also.. At the end, all white needed was a single second best move from black and it would be all over. This did not happen due to excellent defense in the later stages of the game.

5)White did not act on time, and waited for black to make another mistake to win (this was white's biggest mistake, he was not decisive enough even though he had a winning advantage)

6)Starting from 24...Re8, I believe that black's play was at a very high level. it was a very difficult position to save, and the team analyzed this difficult position very well.

7) Both sides analyzed (mainly) with Rybka, world team was able to find some important moves that were not Rybka's first choice to draw the game. GMAN mostly copied Rybka, and did not add much from himself.

8) GMAN was happy with a draw, and did not take action when he had a significant advantage, allowing you to equalize.

9) Both sides thought Rybka was "god", and did not give enough attention to other engines (which depending on the type of position are stronger than Rybka). World team did not know in what position Rybka was not the best engine. GMAN did not have the time to analyze with other engines (because of his other important games).

10) Overall, this is a very good result (considering the position after 18...Qxg5).

11)Ending was not a dead draw, it should have been played a little longer.

12)In my opinion, this was the weakest game by the World team in 3 games I witnessed. At least, you now know that it may be very difficut to draw with black.

13) Umansky game: You will be facing one of the most creative cc player alive. His computer skills, and strength will not match yours, but his positional understanding and intuition will be at a much higher level. In my opinion advantage is with the world team due to stronger computer skills.

Good luck!

Feb-27-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: <chesscard> Thanks for your input in this game it was most helpful to the team.
Feb-27-09  WhiteRook48: I wish we had a better pun, like "A good five cent Nickel"
Feb-28-09  Dionyseus: This game was so boring I didn't even know it had finished!! I hope this game will be a big lesson to those of you who think solid is better than risky in the opening.
Mar-01-09  Dionyseus: What I meant to say is that we played too defensively, I think we needed to be more aggressive.
Mar-01-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Arno Nickel: Anyone interested in my comments, may please look at my site on chessgames.com: Arno Nickel
Mar-05-09  Nite4k: I went to GMAN's homepage and was very disappointed to learn that he has refused to engage in any further postgame analysis until someone on the World Team provides analytical proof that he missed a winning line or lines.

Here is what he posted:

<Well now, I prefer to discuss about good and bad moves first, anyway which engine may play these moves or not. And I prefer to discuss plans, not only single moves. Here I am really amazed about endless repeated statements in the chat, saying that I, GMAN, had spoiled my advantage and missed a win – endless repeated! – BUT never I found any ANALYTICAL PROOF for such statements. Some guys think, they even know the reason, why I failed – of course because I followed Rybka and didn’t understand the position! LOL. As far as I could see by the chat, that’s all pure speculation and some kind of self-fullfilling prophecy. (‘We felt, Nickel should win, but as he did not, he must have committed mistakes.’) Sorry, but’s a shame to read such rubbish things even from players, who are strong enough to know the difference between an “analysis” and an unproven statement. I will wait for your concrete analysis, before I am going to provide more of my views, especially regarding Rybka and other engines. Regards, Arno >

I do not recall any such winning line analyzed during the course of the game (although all our engines evaluated his position as superior until the last moves when it became [+0.00]) and that has been confirmed by checking back on the previous postings on this forum.

Were there any such analytical proof posted on the Sticky forums or our analysis tree?

To <RV>: What is the threshold for engine evaluation [+.1.00?, 1.50?, higher?] that would constitute a "winning advantage"?

Mar-06-09  chesscard: 1) Analytical proof is neither necessary or possible : One needs 50-60 ply depth to show analytically that white was winning.

2)With "Intution" and "chess understanding" is enough to see that black should have lost this game: (margin of error has been exceeded). black made at least 4-5 second best (or worse) moves. (In my opinion black can afford only 1 second best move to draw (white can afford 3 and can still draw))

3)The position should have been won for white. White had to seek immediate cirisis when there was an advantage. Instead, GMAN played like Karpov: "little moves", keeping the advantage and waiting. This lead to gradual disappeance of the advantage. How he played was: Sound: for a draw at hand with good chances of a win. But not aggressive or risky enough. (he probably saw draw as a success considering your previous matches, and did not want to risk losing the game, which is also understandable.)

4) My style is different: I believe that one needs to act like a Boa constrictor when he has the advantage! As soon as a positional advantage is achieved, material is no longer important, and very aggressive play is required. You can see this in my games. (This way i scored 10.5/11 with white in my last 2 iccf tournaments with a performance rating close to 3200!). Not letting an advantage disappear is very important in cc. (I would expect to score 90% against GM level after Qxg5).

5) GMAN is a strong cc GM, but if he wants to improve, he also needs to analyze what he did wrong ,letting the advantage disappear. (I am also very critical of myself, even in games I have won, I try to find if i did something wrong)Overall he played very well, and he was never in danger of losing. But in order to win heavily, you need to be on the edge of the cliff, where only single one can stand! In a way, you have to be ready to die in order to kill! That was missing...

very good game overall. very bad play in the opening and early middle game by black deserving of the game. (i don't think there are more than 10 people in the world who could save that position). Sound play by white, never letting the advantage disappear with a draw at hand always.

Overall a great exhibition game!

Mar-11-09  WhiteRook48: if 42...Qxe5 was voted on, why is it not in the PGN?
Mar-12-09  WhiteRook48: why not 41...Rxe1+ 42 Qxe1 exd5? :-) I like risks
Mar-15-09  WhiteRook48: sure we can come up with a better pun than this
Mar-18-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Arno Nickel: New comments from me and others also to be found here: Arno Nickel
Oct-13-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  LIFE Master AJ: Tough game ... congrats to the World. (You bent - but never really broke.)
Oct-22-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  LIFE Master AJ: I never saw a clear win for White.

I ran through this game 4-5 times with several different engines.

Nov-02-12  RookFile: This is really an amazing defensive effort.
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