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The Challenge
The World vs Natalia Pogonina
C U R R E N T   P O S I T I O N

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   Chessgames Challenge
Can a group of chess amateurs team up to beat a grandmaster?  Find out in the Chessgames Challenge!  You can vote for the move you think is best, and discuss the game with other members on this page.

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[Natalia Pogonina]

[flip board] GAME OVER: 1/2-1/2 [flip board]

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5 4.g3 Bb4+ 5.Bd2 Be7 6.Bg2 c6 7.O-O O-O 8.Qc2 b6 9.Rd1 Nbd7 10.Bf4 Ba6 11.Nbd2 Rc8 12.Rac1 Nh5 13.Be3 Nhf6 14.Bg5 h6 15.Bxf6 Bxf6 16.b4 Bb7 17.Qb3 Ba8 18.c5 a5 19.a3 Rb8 20.Qc2 Bb7 21.e4 Qc7 22.Nf1 dxe4 23.Qxe4 Rfd8 24.Ne3 Ba6 25.Ng4 Bb5 26.Qc2 axb4 27.axb4 Be7 28.Ra1 h5 29.Ne3 Bf6 30.Ra3 bxc5 31.bxc5 Ra8 32.Rxa8 Rxa8 33.Bf1 Bxf1 34.Kxf1 e5 35.dxe5 Nxe5 36.Qe4 Nd7 37.Qf5 Ra7 38.Qxh5 g6 39.Qg4 Nxc5 40.h4 Ra4 41.Nc4 Qb7 42.Kg2 Qb3 43.Qc8+ Kg7 44.Nd6 Qxd1 45.Ne8+ Kf8 46.Nxf6+ Kg7 47.Ne8+ Kf8 48.Nf6+ Kg7 49.Ne8+ Kf8 50.Nc7+ Kg7 51.h5 Ra1 52.h6+ Kf6 53.Qh8+ Ke7 54.Qe8+ Kd6 55.Qd8+ Nd7 56.Ne8+ Kc5 57.Qe7+ Kb6 58.g4 Ra4 59.Qd8+ Ka6 60.Nf6 Rf4 61.Ne5 Rxf2 62.Kxf2 1/2-1/2
GAME OVER thank you for playingit is now 13:50:00

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 854 OF 1069 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-25-10  imag: <33...Ba4 34.Qa2 Qd8 35.Ra1 Nxc5 36.dxc5 Bxa1 37.Qxa1 Bb5

[+0.00] d=30 38.Qb2>

38.Qe5 offers winning chances according to my analysis.

click for larger view

If she plays Ba4 I offer to play White side from this position and try to win the game.

Nov-25-10  imag: It would be nice to find a win from a position which scores 0.00/30 ;)
Nov-25-10  Boomie: I played around with the 35...Qa5 line a bit. Here is a dump of my work. I hope someone can find improvements for us.

The "main" line is highlighted. Of course, that is just my guesstimate of what's best. I've excluded the engine evals. The main line is equal and the sublines are given to suggest areas of possible improvements.

A lot of us are a little squeamish about long lines and with good reason. However if we are going to find traps over Pogo's horizen, we have to go deep.

33...Ba4 34.Qa2 Qd8 35.Ra1

<35...Qa5 36. Rb1>

(36. Bc4 Nxc5 37. dxc5 Bxa1 38. Qxa1 Qxc5 39. Kg2 Ra7 40. Qb1 Bb5 41. h4 Rd7 42. Ng5 Bxc4 43. Nxc4 Qd5+ 44. Kh2 Qd4 45. Qh7+ Kf8 46. Qh8+ Ke7 47. Ne3 g6 48. Qc8 f6 49. Nh7

(49. Nh3 e5 50. Qg8)

49...Rd8 50. Qxc6 Kf7 51. Qc7+ Qd7 52. Qf4 Qd4 53. Ng5+ Ke7 54. Ne4 f5 55. Ng5

(55. Qg5+ Kf7 56. Nc5 Rg8 57. Nb7 Qb6 58. Nc4 Qxf2+ 59. Kh3 Qf1+ 60. Kh2)

(55. Qc7+ Rd7 56. Qc5+ Qxc5 57. Nxc5 Rd4 58. Kg2 e5 59. Kf3 Kd6 60. Nb3 Ra4 61. Nd2 e4+ 62. Kf4 Ke6 63. Kg5 Ra2 64. Nec4 Kf7)

55...Qxf4 56. gxf4 Rd2 57. Kg3

(57. Kg2 Rd4 58. Kf3 Ra4 59. Nh3 Kd6)

57...Ra2 58. Nf3

(58. Nc4 Ra4 59. Ne5 Kf6 60. Kf3 Ra3+ 61. Ke2 Ra2+ 62. Ke3 Ra3+ 63. Nd3 Ke7 64. Kd4 Ra4+ 65. Kc5 Ra3 66. Kc4 Ra2)

58...Kf6 59. Ne5 Ra1 60. N3c4 Rd1 61. Nb6 Rg1+ 62. Kh2 Rc1 63. Kg2 Rc3)


(36...Qd8 37. Qd2)

<37. Qxa5 Rxa5 38. Bxb5 Rxb5 39. Rxb5 cxb5 40. Kf1 Kf8 41. Ke2 Nb8 42. Nc2 Nc6 43. Kd3 Ke8>

(43...g5 44. h3)

<44. Na3 b4 45. Nb5 Kd7 46. Kc4 g5 47. h3 b3 48. Kxb3 g4 49. hxg4 hxg4 50. Nh2 Bxd4 51. Nxd4 Nxd4+ 52. Kc4 Nf3 53. Nxg4 f5 54. Ne3 Kc6>

Nov-25-10  sombreronegro: No way she walks into the pin by Ba4. I would be very surprised.
Nov-25-10  Boomie: <Skakalec: <Qa7> is maybe not covered by <RV> but I think we have few lines here. It's also unclear why <boomie> is looking on line <Bf1, Ba4, Qa2, Qd8,Ra1, Qa5> and now <Rb1> ?? Why <Rb1>?>

I posted all my lines today. I tried Bc4 instead of Rb1. Rb1 is effective against Bb5.

Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <33...Ba4 34.Qa2 Qd8 35.Ra1 Nxc5 36.dxc5 Bxa1 37.Qxa1 Bb5>

FWIW, Fritz10 thinks 34...Qd8 is a blunder and suggests 34...Ra7. After 38. Qb2 he says .86

Nov-25-10  Boomie: <truefriends: Don't know if anyone is interested in Stockfish 1.9.1's very optimistic view on RV's mainline (which scores 0.00 with Rybka4): <Section A1: <33.Bf1 Ba4 34.Qa2 Qd8 35.Ra1 Nxc5 36.dxc5 Bxa1 37.Qxa1 Bb5>

[+0.00] d=30 38.Qb2 Bxf1 39.Kxf1 Qd3 40.Kg2 f6>

After move 37: Stockfish 1.9.1, 25 ply, + 0.76 38.Qb2

After move 40: Stockfish 1.9.1, 25 ply, + 1.09 41.Kh3>

I saw that yesterday and posted the 41.Kh3 result. However at greater depth, the evals go way down. So I had to post a disclaimer. We need to go deeper into these lines to find the "real" evaluation.

Nov-25-10  blue wave: <Boomie> RV has done some work on 41.Kh3. I enquired last night about it on RVs forum and it still seems to come out at zero on RV. :-(
Nov-25-10  scormus: <Boomie> 3 possibilities on move 41. Rybka4 evals Kh3 as even, I wont argue about it hard to see how W can win, while the other 2 are drawn. I suspect all 3 lines could be improved on.

41.♔h3 ♔h7 42.♕b4 ♖a2 43.♘e1 ♕e2 44.♕e4+ f5 45.♕xe6 ♕xf2 46.♘1g2 f4 47.gxf4 ♕f3+ 48.♔h4 ♖xg2 49.♘xg2 ♕xg2 50.♕f5+ ♔g8 51.h3 ♕f2+ 52.♔xh5 ♕f3+ 53.♔g6 ♕g2+ 54.♕g5 ♕e4+ 55.♔h5 ♕e3 56.♔h4 0.00/24

Nov-25-10  blue wave: Here it is. From RV. Thanks!

38.Qb2 Bxf1 39.Kxf1 Qd3 40.Kg2 f6>

[+0.00] d=30 41.Kh3 Qe4 42.Nd2 Qd3 43.Ndc4 Kh7 44.Kg2 Qe4+ 45.Kg1 Qd3 46.Nd6 Ra5 47.Qb7 Rxc5 48.Qe7 Re5 49.Ndc4 Qb1+ 50.Kg2 Re4 51.Nd6 Rxe3 52.fxe3 Qc2+ 53.Kh3 Qe2 54.Ne8 Qg4+ 55.Kg2 Qe2+

Nov-25-10  scormus: and the next part

41. ♘d2 ♖a4 42.♘df1 ♕e4+ 43.♔g1 h4 44.♕b8+ ♔h7 45.gxh4 ♕xh4 46.♕e8 ♖a2 47.♘g3 ♕f4 48.♕h5+ ♔g8 49.♕e8+ ♔h7 50.♕h5+ ♔g8 51.♕e8+ ♔h7 52.♕h5+ ♔g8 53.♕e8+ ♔h7 draw/26 Why not 50. Qxc6?

41.h3 ♔h7 42.♔h2 ♖a5 43.♘d4 ♕e4 44.♘b3 ♖b5 45.♕e2 ♖xb3 46.♕xh5+ ♔g8 47.♕e8+ ♔h7 48.♕h5+ ♔g8 49.♕e8+ ♔h7 50.♕h5+ ♔g8 51.♕e8+ ♔h7 52.♕h5+ draw/24

Nov-25-10  Garech: If all the pieces come off - do we have endgame chances?


Premium Chessgames Member
  cormier: Boomie after ...Qa5.<Nc4!>Qc3. Be2 eventually win's ....
Nov-25-10  Boomie: <cormier: Boomie after ...Qa5.<Nc4!>Qc3. Be2 eventually win's ....>

Looks like a good try. I can't find the win, though. Could you post it for me? tks mstr.

Nov-25-10  karpkasp: After 33... e5, it's not an easy win as I expected: Houdini gives the plausible continuation 34. Bxb5 exd4 35. Qf5 g6 36. Nd5 gxf5 37. Nxc7 Rc8 38. Bxc6 Rxc7 39. Bxd7 Rxd7

Here, I let Houdini think in analysis mode: 40. c6 Rc7 41. Rc1 f4 42. Kf1 fxg3 43. hxg3 d3 44. Ke1 Bb2 45. Rc4 Kf8 46. Kd2 Ke7 47. Ne1 Ba3 48. Nxd3 Bd6 49. Ke3 Kd8 50. Nf4 Re7+ 51. Kd3 Bxf4 52. Rxf4 Re6 53. Rxf7 Rxc6 54. Ke3 Rc1 55. Kf4 Ke8 56. Rh7 Rc4+ 57. Kf3 Rc5 0.77 at 30 ply.

This rook ending looks winning for white after 58. Kg2 followed by 59. Kh3, but black can improve on move 41... Kf8! 42. Kf1 Ke7 43. Ke2 Kd6 44. Kd3 Rxc6 45. Rxc6+ Kxc6 46. Nxd4+ Kd5 47. Nxf5 Ke5

White is a pawn up, but I would be surprised to find a win with this material configuration (N + 3P vs B+ 2P)

Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <Boomie> In the ...Qd8-a5 line, <Tabanus> found a 'miracle' line. It may not be fireproof, but it's beautiful. Tab, karpkasp and I looked at it yesterday:

33.Bf1 Ba4 34.Qa2 Qd8 35.Ra1 Qa5

(My suggestion, based more on a hunch about the way she plays than anything else - but the BQ is headed for c3, to restore pressure on d4 and make ...Nxc5 playable under more favorable conditions)

36.Rb1 seems solid enough, but here's Tab's line:

36.Nc4 Qc3 37.Qa3 Bxd4 38.Nxd4 Qxd4 39.Ra2 Qxc5 40.Qxc5 Nxc5 41.Nb6 Ra7/a5

Black can't move anything, apart from king, pawns, and the Ra7-a5-a7. White can win the exchange with Be2-d1, but there's no rush. f4 first is good, as is ...gxh4 if the h-pawn is pushed.

OK, it's fantasy. She'd have to think we were in meltdown to grab both pawns like that. But it's worth remembering in the unlikely event that this line becomes real.

Position after 41.Nb6:

click for larger view

Nov-25-10  karpkasp: <Beyowulf> After 33... h4 34. Bxb5 cxb5 35. Nxh4 Qc6 36. Nhg2 seems playable: 36... Ra4 37. Qb2 e5 38. d5 Qxc5 39. Rc1 e4 40. Rxc5 Bxb2 41. Rxb5 and here, I prefer white (d5 passer + potential one on h column).

Maybe 35... Bxh4 is better for black.

Premium Chessgames Member
  cormier: <<Boomie>> <33...Bf4 34.Qa2,Qd8 35.Ra1,Qa5 <36.Nc4,Qc3 37.Be2>> ... 1. (0.37): 37...Bxd4 38.Nxd4 Qxd4 39.Nb6 Nxb6 40.cxb6 Qxb6 41.Bd1 Qd4 42.Bxa4 h4 43.Kg2 Qe4+ 44.f3 h3+ 45.Kxh3 Qxf3 46.Qa3 Qh5+ 47.Kg2 Qd5+ 48.Kf2 Qd4+ 49.Kf1 2. (0.92): 37...Nxc5 38.Qb2 Qb3 39.Ra3 Qb5 40.Qa2 Ne4 41.Bd1 Bxd1 42.Rxa8+ Kh7 43.Nfe5 Qb4 44.Qa5 Qxa5 .... <i hope it's your line ..... by, tks G>
Nov-25-10  Boomie: <Domdaniel: <Boomie> In the ...Qd8-a5 line, <Tabanus> found a 'miracle' line.>

Thanks, Dom. I wish folks would put their lines into the AT. It would save us a lot of duplication of effort.

I haven't found a win yet. But it would be fun to torture her with this queenside zugzwang.

Premium Chessgames Member

She won't play Ba4 unless she is willing to do 29 or 30 ply at most every move.

eg. Qd4 looks much more aggressive than RV's Qb2


1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. g3 Bb4+ 5. Bd2 Be7 6. Bg2 c6 7. O-O O-O 8. Qc2 b6 9. Rd1 Nbd7 10. Bf4 Ba6 11. Nbd2 Rc8 12. Rac1 Nh5 13. Be3 Nhf6 14. Bg5 h6 15. Bxf6 Bxf6 16. b4 Bb7 17. Qb3 Ba8 18. c5 a5 19. a3 Rb8 20. Qc2 Bb7 21. e4 Qc7 22. Nf1 dxe4 23. Qxe4 Rfd8 24. Ne3 Ba6 25. Ng4 Bb5 26. Qc2 axb4 27. axb4 Be7 28. Ra1 h5 29. Ne3 Bf6 30. Ra3 bxc5 31. bxc5 Ra8 0 32. Rxa8 Rxa8 33. Bf1 Ba4 34. Qa2 Ra7 35. Ra1 Nxc5 36. dxc5 Bxa1 37. Qxa1 Bb5 38. Qd4

click for larger view

Premium Chessgames Member

<Xenon Oxide:>

Perpetual check is still alive if she plays BxB. Nc4, Nd6, and Nf7


Premium Chessgames Member

click for larger view

Analysis by Fritz 12: dpa 23 not sandy <if 33...Ba4 34.Qa2,Qa5>

1. = (0.25): 35.Rb1 Qd8 36.Qe2 Bb5 37.Qd2 Bxf1 38.Kxf1 Rb8 39.Rxb8 Qxb8 40.Kg2 g5 41.h3 Qb1 42.Nc2 Kh7 43.Qd3+ Kg8 2. = (0.15): 35.Nc4 Qd8 36.Ra1 Nxc5 37.dxc5 Bxa1 38.Qxa1 Bd1 39.Qc3 Bxf3 40.Qxf3 Qd5 41.Qe3 Ra1 42.Qc3 Rb1 43.Ne3

Premium Chessgames Member
  cormier: <<Boomie>>, hi have a good day ... i've left your line in <<RV>>'s forum and a little + info ..... by, tks
Nov-25-10  chesstoplay: World Team --

Happy Thanksgiving to our USA players.

I've enjoyed watching your game very much.

Good Luck!!

Nov-26-10  bayowulf: <karpkasp>I agree with you that 33..h4 is good for white. It first appeared with evals comparable to 33..Bxf1 - but on further analysis is very good for white. It was worth a brief look.
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