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The Chessgames.com Challenge
Team White vs Team Black
C U R R E N T   P O S I T I O N

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   Chessgames Challenge
Can large groups of chess fans team up to create a chess masterpiece? Find out in Chessgames Challenge!  You can vote for the move you think is best, and discuss the game with other members in the Kibitzer's Corner.

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[flip board] GAME OVER: 1/2-1/2 [flip board]

MOVES:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Ne7 9.b4 Nh5 10.Re1 f5 11.a4 a5 12.bxa5 Rxa5 13.Nd2 Nf6 14.Nb3 Ra8 15.f3 c5 16.Bd2 f4 17.a5 g5 18.Na4 Ng6 19.Nb6 Ra6 20.Rb1 h5 21.Nxc8 Qxc8 22.Nc1 Rf7 23.Nd3 Bf8 24.Kh1 Be7 25.Rg1 Rg7 26.Rb5 Bd8 27.g3 Qd7 28.gxf4 gxf4 29.Bc3 Kh7 30.Qb1 Ra7 31.Qe1 Kh6 32.Bxe5 dxe5 33.Nxc5 Qe7 34.Ne6 Rg8 35.Qc3 Nd7 36.c5 Ndf8 37.Nxd8 Qxd8 38.Bd3 Rg7 39.Bf1 Ra6 40.Qb4 Ra7 41.Qd2 Ra6 42.d6 Qc8 43.Qg2 Nh7 44.Bc4 Qd7 45.Bd5 Qxb5 46.Bf7 h4 47.Qxg6+ 1/2-1/2
GAME OVER thank you for playingit is now 14:53:02
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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 272 OF 272 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-11-16  blue wave: <RV> <Komodo 9.2 60:10:0:0

16...f4

+0.31/45 17.a5 g5 18.Na4 Ng6 19.Nb6 Ra7 20.Rf1 Bd7 21.Nxd7 Qxd7 22.Qc2 Rfa8 23.Rfb1 g4 24.fxg4 Nxg4

16...Kh8

+0.20/42 16...Kh8 17.a5 Ra6 18.Rb1 Rf7 19.Qc2 f4 20.Na4 g5 21.Qd3 Neg8 22.Nb6 g4 23.Nxc8 Qxc8 24.fxg4> <page 113>

Our vote for move 16 was tight. The move <16...Kh8> nearly got in. I do wonder in hindsight if this move may have made our game slightly easier as black? Hard to say really?

Mar-12-16  nite: Many hard-to-says in this game. The impossible-to-says are my favorite part of chess: a position that a team of Super GMs with super computers, spending months, couldn't agree on. This game had a lot of that. Thanks, all!
Mar-13-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tiggler: <DanLanglois: I acknowledge the query about whether I am deluded -- I'm embarrassed and sorrowful and hoping that enthusiasm is a beautiful thing, as far as it goes..>

If enthusiasm and hard work were enough, <DanLanglois> would have won this game for white.

Mar-15-16  mistermac: 5 pages of perfunctory post mortem.

Thanks for the game. Let's all go home.

Mar-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  kutztown46: Wait a minute. I've only read the first 100 pages of kibitzing!
Mar-16-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <kutztown46: Wait a minute. I've only read the first 100 pages of kibitzing!>

Slacker. (laughs)

Mar-18-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: <DanLanglois: ...I'm embarrassed and sorrowful and hoping that enthusiasm is a beautiful thing, as far as it goes...> Enthusiasm is the basis of everything; but particularly those original ideas we dream up from time to time
Mar-28-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  WinKing: How Team White voted:

1.d4 21 votes (61.8%)
1.e4 11 votes (32.4%)
1.other 2 votes (5.8%)

(34 votes total)

**********

2.c4 13 votes (52.0%)
2.Nf3 5 votes (20.0%)
2.Bg5 3 votes (12.0%)
2.other 4 votes (16.0%)

(25 votes total)

**********

3.Nc3 20 votes (83.3%)
3.Nf3 3 votes (12.5%)
3.other 1 vote (4.2%)

(24 votes total)

**********

4.e4 23 votes (92.0%)
4.Nf3 2 votes (8.0%)
4.other 0 votes (0.0%)

(25 votes total)

**********

5.Nf3 14 votes (51.9%)
5.f3 10 votes (37.0%)
5.h3 2 votes (7.4%)
5.other 1 vote (3.7%)

(27 votes total)

**********

6.Be2 13 votes (56.5%)
6.h3 10 votes (43.5%)
6.other 0 votes (0.0%)

(23 votes total)

**********

7.O-O 18 votes (72.0%)
7.d5 5 votes (20.0%)
7.other 2 votes (8.0%)

(25 votes total)

**********

8.d5 22 votes (88.0%)
8.dxe5 2 votes (8.0%)
8.other 1 vote (4.0%)

(25 votes total)

**********

9.b4 14 votes (50.0%)
9.Ne1 12 votes (42.9%)
9.Bg5 2 votes (7.1%)
9.other 0 votes (0.0%)

(28 votes total)

**********

10.Re1 12 votes (44.4%)
10.c5 12 votes (44.4%)
10.Bd2 2 votes (7.4%)
10.other 1 vote (3.8%)

(27 votes total)

**********

11.a4 14 votes (48.3%)
11.Ng5 10 votes (34.5%)
11.Rb1 4 votes (13.8%
11.other 1 vote (3.4%)

(29 votes total)

**********

12.bxa5 17 votes (63.0%)
12.b5 5 votes (18.5%)
12.Ba3 5 votes (18.5%)
12.other 0 votes (0.0%)

(27 votes total)

**********

13.Nd2 20 votes (76.9%)
13.Bd2 4 votes (15.4%)
13.other 2 votes (7.7%)

(26 votes total)

**********

14.Nb3 22 votes (78.6%)
14.f3 4 votes (14.3%)
14.other 2 votes (7.1%)

(28 votes total) votes

**********

15.f3 22 votes (91.7%)
15.Bd3 2 votes (8.3%)
15.other 0 votes (0.0%)

(24 votes total)

**********

16.Bd2 14 votes (51.9%)
16.Be3 5 votes (18.5%)
16.dxc6 3 votes (11.1%)
16.a5 3 votes (11.1%)
16.other 2 votes (7.4%)

(27 votes total)

**********

17.a5 13 votes (52.0%)
17.Nc1 11 votes (44.0%)
17.other 1 vote (4.0%)

(25 votes total)

**********

18.Na4 20 votes (87.0%)
18.other 3 votes (13.0%)

(23 votes total)

**********

19.Nb6 21 votes (95.5%)
19.other 1 vote (4.5%)

(22 votes total)

**********

20.Rb1 15 votes (65.2%)
20.Nxc8 4 votes (17.4%)
20.Qc2 4 votes (17.4%)
20.other 0 votes (0.0%)

(23 votes total)

**********

21.Nxc8 15 votes (71.4%)
21.Nc1 4 votes (19.0%)
21.other 2 votes (9.6%)

(21 votes total)

**********

22.Nc1 21 votes (91.3%)
22.other 2 votes (8.7%)

(23 votes total)

**********

23.Nd3 19 votes (82.6%)
23.0-1 2 votes (8.7%)
23.other 2 votes (8.7%)

(23 votes total)

**********

24.Kh1 15 votes (57.7%)
24.Rb5 6 votes (23.1%)
24.Rb3 3 votes (11.5%)
24.other 2 votes (7.7%)

(26 votes total)

**********

Mar-28-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  WinKing: How Team White voted(continued)

25.Rg1 16 votes (72.7%)
25.Rb5 5 votes (22.7%)
25.other 1 vote (4.6%)

(22 votes total)

**********

26.Rb5 19 votes (86.4%)
26.other 3 votes (13.6%)

(22 votes total)

**********

27.g3 17 votes (81.0%)
27.Qb3 4 votes (19.0%)
27.other 0 votes (0.0%)

(21 votes total)

**********

28.gxf4 16 votes (61.5%)
28.Qb1 2 votes (7.7%)
28.Qc2 2 votes (7.7%)
28.Qc1 2 votes (7.7%)
28.other 4 votes (15.4%)

(26 votes total)

**********

29.Bc3 18 votes (81.8%)
29.other 4 votes (18.2%)

(22 votes total)

**********

30.Qb1 17 votes (68.0%)
30.Bf1 5 votes (20.0%)
30.other 3 votes (12.0%)

(25 votes total)

**********

31.Qe1 11 votes (52.4%)
31.Bf1 5 votes (23.8%)
31.Rxg6 3 votes (14.3%)
31.other 2 votes (9.5%)

(21 votes total)

**********

32.Bxe5 16 votes (84.2%)
32.Bf1 2 votes (10.5%)
32.other 1 vote (5.3%)

(19 votes total)

**********

33.Nxc5 20 votes (95.2%)
33.other 1 vote (4.8%)

(21 votes total)

**********

34.Ne6 22 votes (91.7%)
34.other 2 votes (8.3%)

(24 votes total)

**********

35.Qc3 15 votes (62.5%)
35.c5 6 votes (25.0%)
35.other 3 votes (12.5%)

(24 votes total)

**********

36.c5 24 votes (96.0%)
36.other 1 vote (4.0%)

(25 votes total - draw requests: 4 (16.0%))

**********

37.Nxd8 19 votes (95.0%)
37.other 1 vote (5.0%)

(20 votes total)

**********

38.Bd3 14 votes (73.7%)
38.Bf1 4 votes (21.1%)
38.other 1 vote (5.2%)

(19 votes total)

**********

39.Bf1 16 votes (80.0%)
39.a6 2 votes (10.0%)
39.other 2 votes (10.0%)

(20 votes total - draw requests: 4 (20.0%))

**********

40.Qb4 14 votes (73.7%)
40.Bh3 2 votes (10.5%)
40.Rxb7 2 votes (10.5%)
40.other 1 vote (5.3%)

(19 votes total - draw requests: 4 (21.1%))

**********

41.Qd2 17 votes (73.9%)
41.a6 3 votes (13.0%)
41.other 3 votes (13.0%)

(23 votes total - draw requests: 11 (47.8%))

**********

42.d6 14 votes (53.8%)
42.Qa2 9 votes (34.6%)
42.other 3 votes (11.5%)

(26 votes total - draw requests: 8 (30.8%))

**********

43.Qg2 21 votes (87.5%)
43.Bc4 2 votes (8.3%)
43.other 1 vote (4.2%)

(24 votes total - draw requests: 8 (33.3%))

**********

44.Bc4 21 votes (95.5%)
44.other 1 vote (4.5%)

(22 votes total - draw requests: 8 (36.4%))

**********

45.Bd5 19 votes (70.4%)
45.Rgb1 2 votes (7.4%)
45.other 6 votes (22.2%)

(27 votes total - draw requests: 10 (37.0%))

**********

46.Bf7 23 votes (100%)

(23 votes total - draw requests: 8 (34.8%))

**********

47.Qxg6+ 21 votes (80.8%)
47.Qg4 4 votes (15.4%)
47.other 1 votes (3.8%)

(26 votes total - draw requests: 15 (57.7%)) (1131 votes total in game - 24.1 vote avg. per move)

Draw offered - Draw accepted

**********
**********

(Draw requests were listed only if over 10% of the total vote)

**********

May-02-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  cro777: Modern chess preparation - Computer as sparing partner.

"During practice, the grandmaster analyzes different strategies with his coaches, but they try them out only on a computer.

According to Karjakin, a player at his level requires quite expensive hardware and software. The total cost exceeds $50,000.

Karjakin tries out every element of the game using the computer: attack, defense, holding position, strategy while playing black and white. The computer also helps to prepare for a particular enemy: It simulates the game of the next opponent based on all the match games stored in the database."

http://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/...

Aug-28-16  victim2: I am confused. Was this a well played game...or not?

It appears way too *clunky*

Did either side hope to win?

This game leaves more questions than it answers, and I can analyze but I dont agree with any move (personally)

That could just be my level as a patzer, but dang...

Aug-29-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <victim2> I would say that Team White played an excellent game, but maybe I'm biased. ;-)
Aug-30-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  auh2o: My impression during the game was that white began with the usual advantage and had some prospects for a greater advantage but that black inventively and successfully resisted.
Aug-30-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <auh2o> To me the interesting part of the game started with 32.Bxe5 when White gets 2 pawns for the bishop, the initiative, and a beautifully posted (although not for long) Ne6. Alas, Team Black had apparently evaluated this position all the way to its conclusion and determined that they could hold. And they were right.

The final nail in the coffin for me as far as White's winning chances I described in this post: Team White vs Team Black, 2015 (kibitz #6546). With 2 connected passed pawns for a minor piece, first on the 6th rank and then on the 7th (!) rank, White still has nothing better than a draw since Black can force a draw by repetition.

Aug-30-16  RandomVisitor: <AylerKupp>That is right, we saw the draw ahead of time. We played out of the opening book as far as we could, then tried to find any attacking lines. We were not able to find any playable lines, so we went for the draw only as a last resort.
Aug-30-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: I'm not alone in that I thought there was nothing interesting, and an inevitable draw, after the inexplicable 9. b4.
Jan-06-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  The Chess Express: I tend to agree. The KID is a tough nut to crack. I'm not a big fan of 5. Nf3 in general. I prefer the complications of the Saemisch or the Four Pawns.
Jul-06-17  zsoydd: A very entertaining game, indeed!

I wonder when the next public team chess game will take place and who the opponent will be.

On this occasion I'd like to repeat my proposal to invite one of those ICCF top players with a high win/loss quota in the last few years, at least 20:1.

Jul-06-17  MuzioFan: I asked if there would be another Chessgames Challenge anytime soon, and a little over a month ago I got the reply that I'd hear when some of the details are ironed out. So here's to hoping that happens soon!
Jul-06-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  cro777: <zsoydd> This time chessgames.com wants something different.

chessgames.com: "We want to do a different kind of Team-vs-Team, perhaps a Chess960 or even that Lasker Chess that Arno advocates."

chessgames.com chessforum (kibitz #27591)

Jul-06-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  cro777: chessgames.com: "The situation, in a nutshell, is that the era of GM-vs-computer exhibitions is pretty much dead.

Paying a GM to play 1000 people with computers is a bit like paying a stunt man to fall off a building. Their vast experience makes it so they might just survive, but you can't expect more than that.

That being said we still have lots of room for fun, including chess variants (Chess 960, Lasker Chess, etc.), pre-designated opening exhibitions (see Team White vs Team Black, 2012) and of course the classic team-vs-team matches.

We'll let you know when we iron out some details."

Jul-06-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: <cro777> I'm all up for that, especially if its Chess960. Thats all I play these days over at ChessCube.com :)

*****

Jul-07-17  zsoydd: I was not aware that our opponents got a payment. Thought they'd see it as an honor to play such a strong team and a welcomed opportunity to test their own strength against an opponent who surely wouldn't miss to exploit even the slightest inaccuracy.

I bet the extremely ambitious corr players I was talking about would for sure play for free. Has it even been considered to contact ICCF and ask if one of the ‘strong punchers’ (as said: 20:1 win/loss quota or better) would like to play an entire team with a few strong corr players included?

btw. I think Chess960 is a dead end. It has the same state space like classic chess and thus it will be solved as quick. Besides this it is a more or less illogic extension of classic chess.

With sunny greetings to chessgames and to the team

zsoyd

Jul-07-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <zso: I think Chess960 is a dead end. It has the same state space like classic chess and thus it will be solved as quick. Besides this it is a more or less illogic extension of classic chess.>

I agree and am surprised more people don't. It will push the end-by date of chess out a few years, but that's about it. Maybe that's enough.

And the luck factor involved is the elephant in the room. There will probably be a time before it's solved that some opening positions will be eliminated from consideration. As for tournament play in 960, I have to think you'll have GM's hoping for this or that opening which they've already studied out, analgous to current chess making your opponent play one of your pet openings.

Jul-08-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: <zsoydd> On your comment <... I think Chess960 is a dead end> Chess960 will definitely not be "solved as quick". With the variable piece setup, there are an astronomical # possibilities. A player is forced to "think quick" or "think on his/her toes" when presented with the setup at the last minute. This eliminates the possibility of memorizing variations 20 moves deep and forces one to think tactically right out of the box.

What else could one want?

The only sound argument that I've heard against Chess960 that has some validity came from GM Nickel. He isn't comfortable with the starting setups having the Bishops in opposite corners. I think he said these were boring or drawish

But other than that, Chess960 is great. It brings dynamic to the fore front

*****

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