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|Jul-11-05|| ||sibilare: Eric Schiller,
Being a Native American myself.
I have met up with good chess players whom are Native. They are just not invovled with the circle which you are familiar with.
|Jul-11-05|| ||Eric Schiller: <sibilare> That's good to hear! American chess should have participants from every sector of society. Last year I had discussion with a member of a tribe that was building a new casino, and we discussed sponsorship of a tournament as a good way to get publicity. Sadly, nothing came of it.|
I know that there are many Native Americans who play chess, but not of any masters. I hope we see some in the future.
|Jul-12-05|| ||Kangaroo: Leaving aside all the fruitless discussions about native and non-native Americans playing chess, let me bring a few names that deserve to be listed. |
(1) Paul Morphy
(2) Harry Nelson Pillsbury
(3) Frank James Marshall
(4) Reuben Fine
(5) Robert James Fischer
What unites them all is that they were all born in the US and managed to become on the top worlwide (most of them, at least).
|Jul-12-05|| ||shortsight: <Well, the two strongest chess players who ever lived were Americans ... > Well, this is worth noting, but more prominent is that more than 10 of the world strongest chess players ever lived were/are Russians.|
|Jul-12-05|| ||alayo: Why is this considered Russia vs USA? All the players on both sides are Russians......no?|
|Jul-12-05|| ||alayo: I correct myself. Zsuzsa Polgar is not Russian :-)|
|Jul-12-05|| ||vonKrolock: Lasker and Kasparov Americans!? - Well, this is worth noting|
|Jul-12-05|| ||SnoopDogg: Defining who is an American is purely intuitive in my opinion. If you meet a man with a name such as Joe Smith or T.J. Taylor, you would assume these people to be American since they have American sounding names (or Americanized names if you will). Also basis on their accent is taken into account and where they were born or raised also.|
However wrong this may be, we can't kid ourselves if we were given the name Mike Foster and Vassily Zaitsev and asked to choose which one is the Russian and which is the American, everyone would choose Foster = American, Zaitsev = Russian.
Regarding on whether we should consider the likes of Polgar, Onischuk, and Gulko as Americans, I think it is nonsense to say they are not Americans since they all live in the USA and play under the USCF.
Unfortuanately, the American public stereotypes, as you see on this forum, who is American and who is an "immigrant." They are upset since they see a bunch of Russian emigrates playing for their country. Now this is human nature, especially for natives to want players that were BORN and raised in the USA and not just some "russian emigrates going to the USA to make more money" (this is a quote by the way on another forum, though offensive I don't think one could really make a strong case on how going to the US for financial reasons is bad).
Anyways "native", does not have to be Indians or Native Americans if you will. Simply it can mean "many generations of your family have lived here and have assimilated" or just means you are born and raised here.
Now a "native" American lineup would go as follows:
1. Hikaru Nakamura (raised here I know not born)
2. Larry Christiansen
3. Joel Benjamin
I'm probably forgetting someone but this lineup I don't think there would be much bickering on the subject of who is really American.
|Jul-12-05|| ||azaris: I think for many people it simply means "white protestant male".|
|Jul-12-05|| ||alexandrovm: I don't think it matters. The greatest player of all time is from Baku, but he will be remember as a russian guy, no matter how hard the debate could be.|
|Jul-12-05|| ||gladiator367: Konechno Rossiskiye igroki vigrali...|
|Jul-14-05|| ||PhilFeeley: This all seems a little off topic to the match just played. Would anyone be interested to know that it was filmed for broadcast later this month? Granted, it's by the wretched Fox network, but still, it's chess on TV! You've got to love that!|
|Jul-14-05|| ||Sneaky: What a lot of people don't realize about the "immigrants vs Americans" debate is that the public's opinion changes wildly across the decades. Somebody named, let's say, "Bob Martin" sounds like a "real" American name, but Martin is a German name, and there was a time (circa WWI) when Germans were looked at with a raised eyebrow... sort of like Americans think of Arabs these days. Maybe in the future "Muhammed Haji" will sound like a "real" American and some other group will be the villians.|
|Jul-14-05|| ||Sneaky: alexandrovm, Radjabov's good, but come on, there must be better than him... ;-)|
|Jul-14-05|| ||Jafar219: <Sneaky> He is talking about Kasparov not Radjabov.|
|Jul-14-05|| ||alexandrovm: yes, thanks <Jafar219> :) About inmigrants, the World is full of it, all over the World. Perhaps one of the few comunity without inmigrants are the "gitanos" (cigans, I guess is called). In WWII, Hitler was from Austria (job: an artist), but still lead Germany to a political line and to war.|
|Jul-14-05|| ||popski: Who won here anyway, Russia or Russia?|
|Jul-14-05|| ||PhilFeeley: Here's the Chess on TV link info:
|Jul-15-05|| ||alexandrovm: lol <<<popski>>>. Russia won :)|
|Jul-16-05|| ||perfidious: <kangaroo> An addendum to your remarks
re the alternatives available in USA vs former USSR: Paul Keres noted in his later years that there were many more things to do for ambitious youngsters than play chess, by way of explaining the gap of top-class talents between Tal and Karpov. Also, though Spassky was the junior by two months, he took his first major stride towards the crown before Tal, at Bucharest 1953.|
|Jul-18-05|| ||Whitehat1963: The list of contestants in this match is about as "American" as the following list of random Major League Baseball stars: Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, Juan Gonzalez, Carlos Beltran, Pedro Martinez, David Ortiz, Johan Santana, Javier Vasquez, Carlos Zambrano, Miguel Cabrera, Albert Pujols, Moises Alou, Vladimir Guererro, Miguel Tejada, Luis Castillo, Jose Guillen, Javy Lopez, Aramis Ramirez, Felipe Lopez, Bobby Abreu, Omar Vizquel, David DeJesus, Carlos Delgado, Ivan Rodriquez, Julio Lugo, Raul Ibanez, etc., etc., etc. Baseball as "American" as apple pie ... Central American that is!|
It reminds me of a Saturday Night Live "Weekend Update" joke in which they showed pictures of Kristi Yamaguchi and Midori Ito in the 1992 Winter Olympics and said something to the effect of, "Well, at least the Americans showed their superiority over the Japanese and the rest of the world."
Obviously, the U.S. is still the melting pot.
|Jul-18-05|| ||SnoopDogg: I like the quote, "Russians are everywhere but Russia!"|
|Jul-18-05|| ||beenthere240: <whitehat1963> I'd say all of the players you mentioned are American. Perhaps not US natives, but certainly American. Or are we claiming the whole hemisphere?|
|Jul-18-05|| ||Whitehat1963: And how could I have forgotten Sammy Sosa and Rafael Palmeiro? <beenthere240>, I was only claiming that the U.S. has a lot of Latin American immigrants, a disproportionate number of whom become great baseball players. Pretty soon baseball will be as "American" as a fajita. Similarly, the list of players representing the U.S. in this chess match still sounds like it as taken from an Eastern European/Russian telephone directory.|
|Jul-23-05|| ||mikeknight: This game will be televised and webcast on Sunday July 24th at 11am CST. It should be very exciting. Chessbase.com has station listings.|
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