< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 42 OF 337 ·
|Sep-16-05|| ||Ulhumbrus: There is another thing: FIDE in 2005 under Ilyumzhinov has not the authority that FIDE had under Euwe in 1975.|
|Sep-16-05|| ||suenteus po 147: The truth of the matter seems to me, that our last three classical champions (before Kramnik) have spoiled our expectation of what a World Champion and the highest level of tournament competition should be. Fischer was a dominant and unstoppable player leading up to his championship. Karpov was the most prolific and successful tournmant player while he was champion. And Kasparov was a juggernaut both on the board and in tournaments for such a long time, I'm surprised people still remember Karpov's reign. Now we are faced with the prospect of a Champion who will be more like Petrosian (bad tournament performances while champion), or Tal (who showed great fire as a champion, but burned out too quickly, never to be relit), and already we're disappointed. I am still reading kibitzes by people who want Kasparov to return to chess, or even Fischer(!). Until another player like that emerges, who is not only dominant among his peers, but becomes World Champion, the whole scene will be viewed as lacking, perhaps greatly lacking.|
|Sep-16-05|| ||notyetagm: <azaris: <Vishy getting over the hill> If he really is, then he absolutely must not win. Haven't we had to listen endlessly about how the WC must be a totally dominant player, winning all tournaments and wiping everybody off the board, yada yada. None of the San Luis participants are capable of that, so let's call the whole thing off.>|
If Topalov continues to improve the way he has over the past two years, then we will have a new Alekhine-like World Champion. A champion who people are <afraid> to sit down and play against. Not like Kramnik, who bores the pants off of people and loses everytime he sacrifices anything.
|Sep-16-05|| ||Bobak Zahmat: Joshka:<Well if you choose to believe this then go ahead. I won't. Until someone beats Kramnik in a classical head to head match, he is still CHAMPION in my book> I understand your point. Therefore I hope that next year or maybe about 2/3 years the FIDE Worldchampion plays against Kramnik, and hopefully the discussion will end then forever about the real world champion. But on the other hand, it is perhaps a dream. Because they say that the players who will participate in Argentina, have signed that they shall not play outside the FIDE circuit.|
|Sep-16-05|| ||centercounter: Joshka:<Well if you choose to believe this then go ahead. I won't. Until someone beats Kramnik in a classical head to head match, he is still CHAMPION in my book>|
I felt the same way some time ago. FIDE has done their best to prevent reunification. Given the contracts the participants in this event and in the next cycle must sign, Kramnik is effectively an island. He will have to play their game and win in order to regain credibility.
|Sep-16-05|| ||csmath: The problem with Kramnik is not that he isn't playing well only. There are many other problems as well for him to be called WC:|
1. He does not have any independent organization to conduct anything to select a challenger for whatever title he has. PCA is nothing and besides Kramnik is a board member there. This would be like Ilyuzhimov playing matches for FIDE title.
2. Kramnik has never earned his title in organized competition. He lost all the qualifying matches. He lost to Gelfand in one cycle, to Kamsky in one more, and to Shirov again.
He had no moral rights to play for WC title of any type. It was given to him by Raymond Keene and Kasparov because Kramnik was a kissa$$ friend to them and Kasparov (and Keene) wanted money and so they organized that London match circumventing Shirov that would have been a legitimate challenger.
3. Since that match the circle around PCA organized half-baked Dortmund 2002 competition for a challenger without 3 of the best players out of top five missing (Kasparov, Anand, and Ivanchuk) and gave a priviledge to Kramnik of playing 14-games match he barely saved in the last game.
4. He does plays lousy currently and is rated way too low for a WC that he claims to be. This is just a part of it.
5. He refused to play in San Luis even though better rated players than he is are there. What qualifies Kramnik above Kasim so that he can sit like royalty and expect that somebody will beg him for a WC match???
|Sep-16-05|| ||csmath: You can criticize FIDE as much as you want, there are many problems there. BUT FIDE organizes serious competitions, FIDE unifies national organizations, FIDE does have ratings system that you all live by, and only FIDE has the WC competition accessible to all the chess players in the world. It is also the only organization independent from the elite players, meaning the title there isn't biased, you earn it by passing through the cycle and winning.|
What else you have? Nothing. You want to have better FIDE, put money in there like Ilyuzhimov did. How much did Karpov invested in the world chess? Or Kramnik? I'll tell you - $0.
|Sep-16-05|| ||jamesmaskell: On the point csmath makes about FIDE Id like to quickly relate this to my local Football team, Margate FC. I dislike the former Chairman because he honestly cant be trusted. I had a bad experience with him when I aired my view in the past (although Im largely over it now) and got a sharp rebuke...it was a checkmate. I havent fully recovered. :)|
However I cannot ignore the fact that money has been brought into the club and has saved the club because of his influence. Because of him I am able to go and see my football side play. It gives me such pride in doing so. I still dont completely trust him and I doubt that will ever happen due to our introduction but I must respect the fact that he found the necessary money to fund the club. The club is now booming, bringing in a crowd of 1,279 for our first game of the season. Incredible start to the season, so inspiring.
Lesson learned, we may not like those in charge but we must admit to the things they brought to the party.
|Sep-16-05|| ||jenspetersson: Hmmm, I just have to add to the multitude of lists in this kibitzing.|
Trying to sort out who I root for is not easy.
Generelly speaking I’m a traditionalist and would like to see unification and future MATCHES, not TOURNAMENTS to achieve the title.
Thus I would prefer a San Luis winner who might bring unification, but who that may be is ofcourse not easy to say. And some other factors also play a role for me, for example if the San Luis winner could be found more legitimate than Kramnik anyhow.
So for now this is my hopes for the outcome in San Luis:
Has the same manager as Kramnik so a new match seems very logical if Leko wins San Luis. Leko would also himself need (and win) a re-match to be 100% undisputable. And I’m sure that he will win against Kramnik next time. My money and heart goes to Peter if a re-match can be arranged (as it did in Brissago, by the way).
Had his chance to beat Kasparov and lost. Kramnik didn’t. I doubt that he could refuse a match against Kramnik if a chance occured. And I doubt Kramnik could refuse a match as well. I would love to see Anand win such a match, since it would be could for chess to have a non-western, non-russian champ.
…and how great wouldn’t it be to have a non-male champ!
… or a champ from the islamic world (hopefully creating some problems for the minirity of fanatic religious leaders who condemn chess as sinful). A win by Kazim is however in my opinion the one most likely NOT to bring unification. He is already world champion. He has tried to get a match with Kramnik and FIDE messed it up. If he wins now, one might be fair and say that we can’t expect him to become world champion over and over and over again to be recognized as legitimate.
Lost against Kazim in Tripoli. Is somewhat uneven although exciting. But no, I would see him as ”worthy” of the ”classical title” until he beats Kramnik in a match and I doubt that such a match will occur.
Sorry, I like his play, but I wan’t to see others more.
Assisted Kramnik in Brissago, didn’t he? Who’s more worthy – the assistant or the champ?
Lost to Kazim in Tripoli…
|Sep-16-05|| ||notyetagm: <1. Leko Has the same manager as Kramnik so a new match seems very logical if Leko wins San Luis. Leko would also himself need (and win) a re-match to be 100% undisputable. And I’m sure that he will win against Kramnik next time.>|
He would have won last time if he had not crawled into a hole and tried to hide the last four games of the match.
|Sep-16-05|| ||jenspetersson: notyetagm wrote: He (Leko) would have won last time if he had not crawled into a hole and tried to hide the last four games of the match.|
Yeah, you are right. But that is also one of the beauties with match play. Leko chose a strategy and it turned out to be the wrong one. Next time he will know better. (And Kramnik sure proved that HE is worthy the title in the last game! Such play under such pressure!)
|Sep-16-05|| ||PhilFeeley: A better Anand interview than the ones being done right now with all the players in the championship: http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanh...|
|Sep-16-05|| ||suenteus po 147: <Lesson learned, we may not like those in charge but we must admit to the things they brought to the party.> Just like Hitler.|
|Sep-16-05|| ||jamesmaskell: Sort of suenteus. I wouldnt be that positive about what he brought to the party though...tbe "party" was meant in a metaphorical way.|
|Sep-16-05|| ||YouRang: I PREDICT:
The final standings will be:
|Sep-16-05|| ||suenteus po 147: <jamesmaskell> Your point is taken, but I'm always wary of giving credit for effectiveness when the means and character by which it is produced are in question.|
|Sep-16-05|| ||jamesmaskell: I dont think you can really compare the former Chairman of Margate FC to the Leader of the Third Reich.|
|Sep-16-05|| ||Backward Development: <The truth of the matter seems to me, that our last three classical champions (before Kramnik) have spoiled our expectation of what a World Champion and the highest level of tournament competition should be.>That's an interesting idea. <I'm surprised people still remember Karpov's reign.>Why's that? Karpov had a great reign as champion, and is the only player(other than Kramnik) to have held his own against Kasparov in his prime. <Now we are faced with the prospect of a Champion who will be more like Petrosian or Tal>Kramnik does appear to be a champion comparable to Petrosian. I also wouldn't be at all surprised if he'll be appreciated at least as much as Tigran in the future. and already we're disappointed. <I am still reading kibitzes by people who want Kasparov to return to chess, or even Fischer(!). Until another player like that emerges, who is not only dominant among his peers, but becomes World Champion, the whole scene will be viewed as lacking, perhaps greatly lacking.>Indeed. I wonder who among the "wunderkinds" will become world champions? My money's on Carlsen. :)|
|Sep-16-05|| ||alexandrovm: <suenteus po 147: <Lesson learned, we may not like those in charge but we must admit to the things they brought to the party.> Just like Hitler.> don't get me wrong, but that comparison is just..., know what I mean? Best wishes...|
|Sep-16-05|| ||suenteus po 147: <alexandrovm> I am aware of the volatile nature of my comparison, but this is something that I've been taking issue with (and I mean "goals versus means," not Ilyuzhimov) lately, and I wasn't as subtle as I often like to be. Best wishes to you, too.|
|Sep-16-05|| ||alexandrovm: <suen> Oh, I understand what you mean then. Anyhow, San Luis will be very interesting. A great battle.|
|Sep-16-05|| ||suenteus po 147: <alexandrovm> I concur! It's practically the same setup as Corus earlier this year, only Kasmdzhanov is participating this time. A lot of people are expecting him to tank like he did at Linares, and he might, but I think he may be a wild card here like he was during last year's championship tournament. And with everyone prepping out the whazoo, it could go to anyone (why wouldn't Svidler prep? is my question), even Morozevich, and I'm predicting him as last. It's actually incredibly exciting not to have a dominant, near unbeatable player in the field at the moment. The 27th can't come fast enough!|
BTW will <chessgames.com> be broadcasting live games? I was seriously depressed with Dortmund (which I know wasn't <chessgames.com>'s fault).
|Sep-17-05|| ||Petrosian63: Is Kramnik recognised as the 14th undisputed World Chess Champion or is he just Classical Champ?|
What is your opinion on Kramnik's title?
|Sep-17-05|| ||Perkins: <Why's that? Karpov had a great reign as champion, and is the only player(other than Kramnik) to have held his own against Kasparov in his prime. >|
WRONG Kaspy, in late thirties, and having up and down periods, was beginning to decline, as all great players do. this was obvious in his mixed tournament results over the past few years, still very good, but a drop off by his own high standards. Kramnik was lucky to get a match against the world's most durable champion, when he was off-peak.
If Kramnik had played Kasparov when Kaspo was 25, he would have had no chance of winning.
|Sep-17-05|| ||catfriend: <Perkins> Read a bit, sir. Kramnik had excellent results against Kasparov many years before London 2000. During all the 90s, he had the best results against Kasparov. So, I suppose that in 1995, Kramnik could still win (don't forget that judging by play and results other than the match, in 2000 Kramnik was off-peak too... Some years before, he had the longest non-defeat streak ever playing against top opposition like Anand and Kasparov).|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 42 OF 337 ·