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|Nov-10-05|| ||iyutan: congratulations to the russians & likewise to the chinese. how come india did not participate? or hungary, england, france, etc.|
|Nov-10-05|| ||iyutan: Ni Hua of china's devastated. the chinese men were incredible, outperforming higher rated ukraine, armenia, & israel.|
|Nov-11-05|| ||iron maiden: <Akavall> The FIDE site's performance rating calculators haven't been working right for a long time.|
|Nov-11-05|| ||DCP23: Next time the Chinese will need to bring two women's teams -- say, a girl team and a senior-ladies team -- and with 8 extra points from them they just might pull it off, you know.|
|Nov-11-05|| ||Petrosian63: Will Ivanchuk lose points?
How about Akopian's performance?
|Nov-11-05|| ||cuendillar: Whether the women's team cheated or not cannot be clearly seen, but the reason for their invitation was a domination in women's events. Sort of decides the difference in class. Myself, I think everything was played out fair.|
|Nov-11-05|| ||DCP23: After the prolific St.Luis kibitzing, someone (was it cu8fan?..) made a sort of compilation of the prothetic (and not-so-prothetic) posts when it was over. I liked the idea, so I'm making the same.|
<Udit Narayan>: <Overall, the Russian team looks the strongest. But I wouldn't be surprised if another team took home first place.>
The Russian team not only LOOKS the strongest. It IS.
<greyfox>: <Team China is leading leaving Team Russia a half point behind. If Team china continues its great performance they could definitely bagged the championship title. But knowing Russia, i believe they would do there very best to win the tournament..>
And right you are, they did just that.
<Dionyseus>: <I think the Russian team will end up winning the Gold medal>
<greyfox>: <we chessplayers expect too much from Team Russia that just to think that they might lose the gold medal to China makes us feel uncomfortable. GO CHINA!!! GO ASIANS!!! WE CAN DO IT!!!>
We expect much from Team Russia and rightfully so.
Perhaps the asians can do it. But not today ;)
<greyfox>: <Coudn't you all calculate it??? Russia has just only two rounds to play while China Men has three but still China is half point ahead.. Therefore, China has the biggest chance to take home the gold medal..>
Biggest chance they got. But the Gold Medal still goes to Moscow.
<notyetagm>: <The Chinese men are for real. They don't need to cheat to win. China is going to dominate this century, both in chess and in other fields. You might as well get used to it now.>
All right, but not just now. Give us some more time to adjust ;)
<stijn>: <than Russia could take the first place by a 2.5-1.5 victory against China in the final round. This probably won't happen though.>
No, it won't. Rather, 3.5-0.5 is what happened.
<Mameluk>: <So who bets on Russia winning 3,5 tomorrow? Me Not.>
Next time think again.
<iron maiden>: <So to win the title Russia has to score 3.5 points from 4 games against China tomorrow. Very difficult, but not impossible.>
<cade>: <Russia could win all 8 of their matches and lose to the Chinese who score a record of 6 wins and 2 losses. It just shows that Russia don't push hard enough against the weaker teams.>
And Russia can win all 8 of their matches and beat the Chinese too. And score a record of 8 wins, 0 losses, and 0 draws. Not to mention 3.5-0.5 result against the closest rival.
<ameekmalhotra345>: <If Moro pulls it off, what a great victory it will be for the Russians>
He did, and it was!!!
|Nov-11-05|| ||Dionyseus: Plus the US team managed the same 4-0 score against the woman's team. If you claim the Chinese men team cheated because of their 4-0 score, you have to accuse the US team too. I think the claim is very silly, every team pretty much destroyed the woman's team, except for Georgia which only managed a 2-2 against them.|
|Nov-11-05|| ||2ndNature: Good point <erimiro1>, just take a look at those names and teams:|
1 Russia 8 0 0 22
2 China Men 6 2 0 21.5
3 Armenia 4 1 3 18.5
4 Ukraine 4 3 1 17.5
5 USA 3 3 2 16.5
(Team Leader - Boris Postovsky, Alexander Onischuk, Boris Gulko, Gregory Kaidanov, Alexander Goldin, Ildar Ibragimov, Igor Novikov)
6 Israel 2 5 1 14.5
(Team Leader - Alex Kaspi, Boris Gelfand, Ilia Smirin, Emil Sutovsky, Boris Avrukh, Michael Roiz, Sergey Erenburg)
7 Georgia 2 5 1 13.5
8 Cuba 1 4 3 13
9 China Women 0 7 1 7
the domination of former Soviet Union's chess is much more than evident...
(of course you have to account for the fact that Armenia, Ukraine and Georgia were part of Soviets).
|Nov-11-05|| ||DCP23: <Dionyseus>, maybe you didn't notice, or maybe you didn't care, but the Chinese chucked the two highest-rated players from their women's team and went with the four lowest-rated against their countrymen. Against the Russians, on the other hand, they did the reverse, leaving out the two lowest-rated players and going with the four highest-rated.|
Ignorance or else, but not to see malice here is what's silly in my book.
You may want to verify that by checking the pairings on the official site if you don't believe me.
|Nov-11-05|| ||percyblakeney: Maybe the World Team Championship was a (late) victory for communism even more than for the Soviet Union, all the players in the whole tournament were brought up in communist countries...|
|Nov-11-05|| ||Dim Weasel: When the going gets tough, the Russian team gets going. Well done. But the China team must also have great fighting spirit, since they probably didn't play for draws in the last round.|
|Nov-11-05|| ||2ndNature: Is this <DCP23> what you have in mind?|
Team Leader - Mr Zhang Wei Da
1 Xue Zhao 2478
2 Huang Qian 2398
3 Wang Yu 2396
4 Qian yun Gong 2374
5 Shen Yang 2326
6 Yi Fan Hou 2220
China Women 0 - 4 China Men
1 Yu, Wang 2396 0 - 1 Bu, Xiangzhi 2637
2 Gong, Qian yun 2374 0 - 1 Ni, Hua 2603
3 Yang, Shen 2326 0 - 1 Zhou, Jianchao 2516
4 Hou, Yi Fan 2220 0 - 1 Liang, Chong 2515
Russia 3 - 1 China Women
1 Grischuk, Alexander 2720 1 - 0 WZhao, Xue 2478
2 Morozevich, Alexander 2707 1 - 0 Qian, Huang 2398
3 Bareev, Evgeny 2675 1 - 0 Gong, Qian yun 2374
4 Rublevsky, Sergei 2652 0 - 1 Yang, Shen 2326
|Nov-11-05|| ||cade: If you want to talk about cheating how about that fact that apart from the Chinese teams and Cuba (a staunch Soviet allie) almost every other player is a former Soviet Russian or was born there.|
|Nov-11-05|| ||DCP23: <2ndNature>: Yep.
<cade>: That's because the Western World cheated itself out of Chess, so it's cheating all right.
|Nov-11-05|| ||DCP23: "For those who were ready to bow down to our new Chinese overlords, the Chinese team scored a combined -3 against traditional powers Russia, Armenia, and Ukraine. If you make a crosstable of just the top four finishers, it's Russia +5, Armenia +1, Ukraine and China -3. Individually the Chinese went +0 -3 against the 2700 club. It was still a great result for the Chinese team, but I'm not ready to give up Chigorin for Sun Tzu just yet. Great results for Bareev (5.5/6) and Morozevich (5.5/7)."|
-- Mig Greengard
|Nov-11-05|| ||lostemperor: What are we talking about here. Ofcourse the Russians were heavily favorites. They have a team of 2700+ players with so much international experience. A dreamteam. If you look how many Chinese have competed in the top-tournaments, only Zhang Zhong has participated in Corus. They never had equal tournaments' participation's records in comparison with the members of the Russian team. This is an unequal comparison. If one had told us before the tournament the Chinese would finish second, half point from the almighty Russians, most of us would be surprised. Just because the Chinese had 6 great rounds results doesn't mean they can perform miracles overnight. And there's nothing wrong of people being enthusiastic by the way the Chinese performed and played the first six rounds except perhaps for Mig. The Chinese were the biggest surprise of the tournament finishing second. An excellent performance.|
|Nov-11-05|| ||cade: The best Chinese player is rated what, 2650 or so and you are having a go at them because they lost by 1/2 point to a team of 2700s? Real low.|
|Nov-11-05|| ||hidude: <lostemperor> I agree with you. The tournament would be glum and blah|
|Nov-11-05|| ||lostemperor: What would this tournament be without the Chinese. The Russians would dully win all their matches with one point difference. Perhaps four draws in the last round if that would suffice. It took the Chinese to push the Russians to their limits. It became a great tournament!|
|Nov-11-05|| ||lostemperor: <hidude> I've added something to it (the famous four short draws frequently seen in these kind of tournaments;)|
|Nov-11-05|| ||hidude: <lostemperor> what four draws|
|Nov-11-05|| ||DCP23: <lostemperor>: <What would this tournament be without the Chinese. The Russians would dully win all their matches with one point difference. Perhaps four draws in the last round if that would suffice. It took the Chinese to push the Russians to their limits. It became a great tournament!>|
Very well said. I agree wholeheartedly.
|Nov-11-05|| ||notsodeepthought: <cuendillar: Whether the women's team cheated or not cannot be clearly seen, but the reason for their invitation was a domination in women's events.> I don't think there was any cheating either, the Chinese women's team lost to almost every team they played - often lopsidedly - and not just to the Chinese men. However, for this very reason I wonder why the women were invited in the first place - the fact that they rule the roost in women's events should not be a valid argument if they are going to get clobbered even by medium-strength men's teams (like the US, say...). This should be taken in consideration at the next Team Championship.|
|Nov-11-05|| ||gazzawhite: Holy moly! What a last round! I honestly had very little hope on the Russians winning after their 3-1 against the Chinese Women. They needed to beat the Chinese Men 3.5-0.5, the team which had done so well in the tournament. But they did it! Incredible! What a fantastic tournament.|
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