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| Sep-12-06 | | EmperorAtahualpa: <While Max Weiss and Mikhail Chigorin tied for first, neither was interested in playing, but the third place finisher, Isidor Gunsberg, was very much interested.> Why were Weiss and Chigorin not interested in playing? Afraid of losing, I guess? |
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Sep-12-06
 | | jamesmaskell: Dude, this series of WC reports is so cool...this rocks! |
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| Sep-12-06 | | positionalgenius: <chessgames.com>Awesome feature.Thanks CG.com.I can't wait for the Karpov matches... |
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| Sep-12-06 | | NakoSonorense: Is that Chaplin on the background? |
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| Sep-12-06 | | EmperorAtahualpa: <chessgames.com> I feel compelled to make a small correction of the above text: Above there is a sentence that begins "This conditions for this match were". Of course it's supposed to be "THE conditions for this match were". |
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Sep-13-06
 | | Gypsy: <Why were Weiss and Chigorin not interested in playing? Afraid of losing, I guess?> Well, the NY 1889 tournament started only a month after the Chigorin-Steinitz I ended, which easily explains why Chigorin prefered to let somebody else to pick up the next WC challenge. As for Max Weiss, he was about to begin lucrative banking career. I reckon because of that he probably felt he better get back to Vienna in a good clip. (It seems that Viennese banking circles considered top chess a good training ground -- Kolish, Weiss -- but they certainly also knew that players too adicted to the game become rather useless for banking...) |
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Sep-13-06
 | | Calli: <Gypsy> Yes, Steinitz pulled out of the tournament while Weiss, Gunsberg and Chigorin played an incredible amount of games at NY 1889. It was 20 players, double round, with draws replayed in the second half! Weiss and Chigorin then played four more games in an effort to break the tie. Total played
Weiss, 49 games
Chigorin, 46 games
Gunsberg, 43 games
Weiss essentially retired after the tournament. Chigorin, as you say, had aleady played a match and probably needed a rest. Gunsberg, who was third place, must have figured it was his only chance. His recent results at Amsterdam 1889 (5th) and Frankfurt 1887 (15th) did not suggest a title contender. |
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Sep-13-06
 | | Gypsy: <Gunsberg, who was third place, must have figured it was his only chance.> Indeed. Even so, I understand that (1) Gunsberg had to supply 1/2 of his side of the purse himself, and (2) he had to play a match with Chigorin first (tied 9:9), before he got to the WC match with Steinitz. And during the WC match itself Gunsberg clearly exceded expectations -- a result of his cunning match-tactics. |
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Sep-13-06
 | | Benzol: I wonder how Max Weiss would have fared if he'd played a match against Steinitz? |
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Sep-14-06
 | | Gypsy: <Benzol> Certainly a tantalizing question, isn't it? |
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Sep-14-06
 | | Calli: In the picture, I believe the tall guy watching the game is really Gunsberg. See http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... The scene looks like a tournament with other games going on, not a match. |
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| Sep-14-06 | | percyblakeney: <Calli> You're right, Gunsberg is watching a game between Weiss and Chigorin (New York 1889): http://www.endgame.nl/newyork.htm |
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Sep-14-06
 | | Calli: Percy, thanks. However, the player sure looks like Steinitz rather than Chigorin. Both facially and his size - Chigorin was bigger. I wonder if this picture is actually from London 1883 with Chigorin, back to us, playing Steinitz. And what is Charles Chaplin doing there next to Gunsberg? :-0 |
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| Sep-14-06 | | dehanne: I thought the players on the pic were Chigorin and Georg Marco. |
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Nov-12-06
 | | Calli: "Gunsberg is watching a game between Weiss and Chigorin (New York 1889)" Looking again, this must be right. The guy standing behind Gunsberg is Lipschütz and the man standing back in the corner is Winawer, I think. Still don't know the other player sitting or the guy next to Gunsberg. |
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| Jan-03-08 | | Nikita Smirnov: Is that Charlie Chaplin on the picture. |
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| Jan-03-08 | | hovik2003: Nice shot but I think Chaplin was still living in England back in 1889. |
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| Jan-04-08 | | Nikita Smirnov: And is that Roosevelt standing on the right of Chaplin. |
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Jan-04-08
 | | Shams: look closely and you can see Zelig in that picture |
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| Feb-28-08 | | Knight13: <Nikita Smirnov: And is that Roosevelt standing on the right of Chaplin.> No. |
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| Mar-03-08 | | Nikita Smirnov: Isn't it Roosevelt on the picture? |
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Mar-10-09
 | | thegoodanarchist: Is this where Bobby Fischer got his ideas for the (potential) 1975 title defense? First to 10 wins? Champion retains title in case of 9-9 wins tie? Fischer must have really respected these early chess pioneers of the WCC... |
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Apr-19-09
 | | talisman: Bat Masterson covers the match for the newspaper. |
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| Apr-19-09 | | AnalyzeThis: Gunsberg was a tough customer, and aquitted himself well in this match. |
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Jun-07-09
 | | Sneaky: <Is this where Bobby Fischer got his ideas for the (potential) 1975 title defense?> Yes and no. Note that this match was capped at 20 games, so it should go without saying that if one player achieved 10 wins he is a shoe-in. You'd think that it would be "10 1/2 wins" to secure the title, but the idea was that if you reach 10 wins first, you must be the better player. But while Steinitz didn't want "draw odds" for the entire match, he also didn't think it was right to play one game for "all the marbles", hence then 9-9 clause. Thus started the long tradition of giving the defending champion a tangible advantage in the match format. The challenger must really prove himself better, not just prove himself an equal. In Fischer's famous letter advocating the Cramer proposal, he pointed to these matches as a historical precedent for the system. However, Lasker-Steinitz World Championship (1894) is a much better example of the format he was seeking. The terms of that match were "The first to win 10 games, draws not counting" implying a completely unlimited format. "Draws not counting" is the operative phrase there. <Fischer must have really respected these early chess pioneers of the WCC...> Of that there is no doubt. Any of his old chess interviews (when he still talked about the "old chess") were largely focused on these guys; they were his idols. Steinitz, Morphy, and (perhaps surprisingly) Staunton were admitted his chess heros, far more than modern players. He devoured their games and they became part of him. In one interview I recall, the interviewer mentioned how brilliant Morphy was with games like his one against Duke Karl, asked how these old players like Morphy would fare today. Fischer said astutely "The reason why there aren't any more Morphy's today, is because there aren't any more Duke Karl's." He then went on to elaborate, and said that with some preparation of modern theory, Morphy would no doubt be a first class player in the modern era, but he didn't go so far as to say that Morphy would dominate everybody. I think they way Fischer put it was that "He wouldn't do anything bad." The interviewer then asked him if HE could beat Morphy, if somehow they could play each other. Then Fischer (fairly young at time) started to squirm a little and nervously laughed--he probably thought he could have a good game with Morphy, but he had a rare humble streak to him as well. He replied simply "I don't know." By the way, is that footage online? I'd LOVE to see that interview again but it's one piece of footage that I haven't seen leak into the internet yet. |
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