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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing > |
| Mar-22-08 |
| MichAdams: <After that, Alekhine broke the London Contract by agreeing to play for the championship with Bogo and Euwe for much less.> He broke the London Rules for the Bogo matches with regard to match length (Rule 1 stipulated first to 6 wins, draws not to count), but not to the prize fund. Euwe was not a signatory to the London Rules. |
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| Mar-22-08 |
| beatgiant: <He broke the London Rules for the Bogo matches> The London rules only set forth conditions under which a challenger could demand a match. It didn't prevent a champion from accepting challenges under other conditions too. I don't think Alekhine broke any contracts. |
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| Dec-06-08 |
| GrahamClayton: Does the National Museum of Sports in Havana, Cuba still have on display the table, board, pieces and chairs used during the 1921 World Championship match between Capablanca and Lasker? |
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Jan-03-09
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| kevin86: The problem-as stated by Plato,has a major variation-not stated: 1 xc7 xb8 2 xd5 and a win will follow with white a knight ahead. |
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| Mar-06-09 |
| visayanbraindoctor: The 1921 Lasker vs Capablanca WC Match I think takes the cake as the best World Chess Championship match ever; both sides were playing with very few errors. We in the present have for the most part forgotten just how good they were. Comparing the games of this match with the recent WC matches and Candidates matches could be a pretty good exercise to remind us of the incredibly high level of chess these past titans had attained. |
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Mar-06-09
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| chancho: <It was the one and only time that he (Lasker) ever disappointed his public; for only fourteen games, less than the stipulated number of thirty had been played. Even so, at that stage of the match the challenger's lead of four points was so convincing that to equal it would have been almost a physical impossibility for a Lasker at the top of his form; and he was far from that. In point of fact Lasker returned to Europe, a sick man. He had to go to hospital for several months, and after that he had to take the cure at Karlsbad before fully restoring his health.> Emanuel Lasker The Life of a Chessmater pg 197. |
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| Mar-06-09 |
| AnalyzeThis: I appreciate both visayanbraindoctor's and chancho's comments. Even a weakened Lasker played with more precision than some of the contests we've seen lately. |
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| Mar-10-09 |
| thegoodanarchist: <<Gypsy> ...Alekhine broke the London Contract by agreeing to play for the championship with Bogo and Euwe for much less. So Alekhine singling out Capablanca for the strictest adherence to original ammount does not seem to have much of a legal basis. Nor can it be realy seen as a principled stance. It was exactly what it was, a fig leaf against the ignominy of backing out of the dangerous rematch commitment.> Or was it vindictiveness? Was AA just giving payback for being required to raise $10k in gold? Either way, AA is seen in a negative light.
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| Mar-10-09 |
| AnalyzeThis: He played a chimp for half of what he was looking for from Capablanca. |
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| Jun-30-09 |
| James Demery: I`ve always been curious how Capa could play so well against Lasker. Capablancas style has been described as being a simple, straightforward style of exchanging down toward an endgame, whereas Lasker had a complicated style and didn`t always exchange pieces so easily. Can someone explain how Capas simple style defeated Laskers complicated style? Later on Alekhine employed his complex style and the great Capa didn`t fare so well. |
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Jun-30-09
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| nimh: Capa played better. |
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| Jun-30-09 |
| AnalyzeThis: Lasker was on his way out, Capa moving onwards and upwards, in 1921. Before this, there was no reason to believe that Capa was stronger than Lasker. |
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| Jun-30-09 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <AnalyzeThis: Lasker was on his way out, Capa moving onwards and upwards, in 1921. Before this, there was no reason to believe that Capa was stronger than Lasker.> Lasker probably would still have had good chances of beating Capa before WW1. Capablanca may arguably have been the ultimate natural chess talent ever produced by humanity, but it must be remembered that before WW1, coming from Latin America, he was a relative newbie to international chess. In fact, the commonplace teen-age GMs nowadays have had more international experience than Capa did before WW1. <James Demery: Capablancas style has been described as being a simple, straightforward style of exchanging down toward an endgame> The more I play over Capablanca's games, the more I realize that his style was not that simple. It seems that in general whenever Capablanca entered a simplifying line, he did so because he had already seen everything until the endgame; and had seen that the resulting endgame was good for him. By everything, this includes all practical tactical shots that his opponents could throw at him; he had seen those too and calculated that the wild melee would also be good for him. So if his opponent chose to mix it up - there are numerous examples here in CG.com where Capablanca minces and dices the tactics of his opponents. |
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| Jun-30-09 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <Lasker had a complicated style and didn`t always exchange pieces so easily> Lasker was the first master to play like a super-GM. He knew exactly when it would be beneficial to trade static advantages for dynamic play, increased piece activity, and the initiative. This was seen as sorcery by some, but in fact Lasker was playing at a higher level than the previous masters of his time. Shortly after Lasker had upgraded the level of chess in the 1890s, other players who played like super GMs started showing up; notably Pillsbury, Maroczy, Schlecter, and Rubinstein. And they must have studied Lasker for he was after all the World Champion, and must have comprehended that Lasker was playing a notch higher than the masters of the 1880s. |
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Jun-30-09
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| chancho: <James Demery: Later on Alekhine employed his complex style and the great Capa didn`t fare so well.> Actually, Alekhine avoided playing in his style and played positionally like Capa in order to win that match.
He had at least 15 years to study and learn Capa's strengths and weaknesses. After Alekhine's early losses, the Russian realized that many adjustments were needed if he hoped to wrest the title from the Cuban.
Not many people could have pulled that off. I mean adopting another player's style in order to beat that player. |
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| Jun-30-09 |
| Petrosianic: That's true. Alekhine won the match by playing more like Capa than Capa. His natural enterprising style had failed miserably against Capa in previous encounters. Yes, this was one of the rare times that someone altered their playing style (as opposed to just their opening repertoire) for a match. Which is funny, because Kalme in 1975 was trying to argue that the unlimited match system would force players to adapt their styles to be more daring. Usually it had no effect at all, or, in this case, had the opposite effect. In the case of Karpov-Korchnoi, the results were negligible. Their 1974 match, though incredibly hard fought, had 19 draws out of 24. When they met again in 1978, under an unlimited system, they had "only" 18 draws in the first 24 games. |
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| Jun-30-09 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <chancho: Alekhine avoided playing in his style and played positionally like Capa in order to win that match. Petrosianic: That's true. Alekhine won the match by playing more like Capa than Capa. His natural enterprising style had failed miserably against Capa in previous encounters.> Alekhine indeed tried to mix it up with Capablanca repeatedly in tactical games before their match. The result was a massacre. Capablanca vs Alekhine, 1913
Alekhine vs Capablanca, 1913
Capablanca vs Alekhine, 1914
Alekhine vs Capablanca, 1914
Alekhine vs Capablanca, 1927
The overconfident Capablanca probably thought that Alekhine would play in exactly the same manner, and get slaughtered again. When Alekhine started playing very solidly and positionally in most of the 1927 match games, it must have shocked Capa. |
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| Jun-30-09 |
| visayanbraindoctor: If one goes over the 1909 Capablanca vs Marshall match, and also his 1913 and 1914 tour of Europe games; it's clear that the proven chess masters of that time tried to knock out the untested and inexperienced Capablanca with complex tactical play. They all got decimated. While it is true that Capablanca's natural penchant was for solid positional play, at which he was so brilliant that he often managed to steer his games into won endgames while his opponents were unaware of what was really happening before it was too late, Capablanca contrary to popular opinion was the strongest tactical player in his era. His games show him consistently knocking out such strong tacticians as Alekhine and Marshall in complex middlegame melees. This has been often overshadowed by his fundamentally sound positional style, so that most chess pundits have the idea that Capablanca was a solidly boring player. Regarding endgames, Capablanca often steered his middlegames into won endgames without his opponents realizing it. That's really brilliant. However, to win these won endgames as a matter of technique, it also often took perfect technique. In brief, Capablanca was also a genuinely incredibly strong endgame player. He first had to have superb endgame judgment in order to determine that he would have an advantage in the endgames that he was aiming for; and once there, he had to have the almost perfect technique to win the actual endgame. |
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Jul-01-09
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| chancho: Alekhine tried playing in his normal aggressive style in this game (apparently forgetting how he won in 1927) and it came back to bite him in the ass: Capablanca vs Alekhine, 1936 |
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| Jul-01-09 |
| AnalyzeThis: These guys are excellent in all phases of the game. It's an oversimplifcation to say that a guy like Karpov can't sit down and outcalculate Kasparov in any given game. They just have certain preferred weapons by which they win games. It would be like say that if you gave Rambo an uzi instead of a machine gun, he wouldn't know what to do. Of course he would. |
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Jul-01-09
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| boz: From an interview with Capa in a December 1927 edition of the Havana newspaper "El Mundo" quoted in Edward Winter's "Capablanca": <A curious phenomenon occurs when I play against Lasker. His qualities as a fighter and his eagerness to play for a win in positions which, strategically speaking, do not entitle any more than a draw to be hoped for, irritate me from the chess point of view, and this increases my efficiency at the board. In such circumstances the fighting spirit is roused in me, and since I am superior to the German in some respects, I manage to beat him at his own game.> No psychological points scored for Dr.L. this time. |
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| Jul-01-09 |
| AnalyzeThis: interesting quote. |
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| Jan-25-10 |
| visayanbraindoctor: <boz> That's because Capablanca hated anything but perfect errorless play. He played the board, not the man. The drawback naturally is that in positions that were approximately equal, Capa thought drawing as the justified result while Lasker could have been making sub-optimal moves to keep the complications going, which in tournament practice led to more Lasker game wins and tournament wins than Capablanca's. <Poor Capablanca! Thou wert a brilliant technician, but no philosopher. Thou wert not capable of believing that in chess, another style could be victorious than the absolutely correct one. – Max Euwe> I do not believe that Lasker was ill during the match itself, even if it is possible that he later became ill and quit for health reasons. Lasker played the games of this match magnificently, as though he were in his prime. And he came in with well prepared openings too. Capablanca beat him because Capa was playing just a tad better. All the games that Capablanca won were won not because of a strong opening novelty but only after a hard middlegame and endgame fight. If it were any other opponent, Lasker would have run over him. Capablanca vs Lasker, 1921 46 moves Lasker vs Capablanca, 1921 58 moves Capablanca vs Lasker, 1921 48 moves Lasker vs Capablanca, 1921 56 moves These are all over 40 moves and represent struggles at the highest human chessic abilities. To his credit if Lasker was going down, he was going down singing his swan song at the top of his voice. One thing that is uniquely great in the institute of the World Championship Match is its consistency. At this era, in 1921, super tournaments, wherein only the very top masters participated, were very rare or non-existent. Practically all international tournaments were 'diluted' with a lot of relatively weaker players, who often became punching bags; the result of which is that the top master who won the tournament was often the one who could punch the weakies the hardest. This makes it difficult to compare a top master's performance from this era with that of today's, wherein the top masters keep on battling out each other in non-weakie diluted super tournaments. The most notable exception is the World Championship Match. Here, in the early 1900s as in today, the two top masters of the world play each other a successions of games over and over again. There are no weakies to beat up in between these games. You meet the same very strong resistance all the time. The World Championship matches, played under very similar conditions of high tension, classical time controls, and offering the largest stake in the Chess World (namely the Title of World Champion) can function as a controlled phenomenon that can be used to accurately gauge just how good the top masters of an era have become. |
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Jan-26-10
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| boz: Excellent observations as always <Doc>. |
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| Jan-26-10 |
| AnalyzeThis: Lasker was past his prime. That's the bottom line. |
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