< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 27 OF 27 ·
|Nov-19-12|| ||KKDEREK: <There were many boring games at Karpov-Kasparov match.They both were playing under USSR flag.And Kasparov`s victory was somewhat political decision of USSR leaders, because they wanted new champion.>|
|Nov-19-12|| ||brankat: Had there been some political aspects to K-K matches, political elite of the USSR would have been "rooting" for Karpov.|
|Nov-20-12|| ||Jafar219: "- Mass Media usually mentions that Heydar Aliyev has helped you a lot when you became the World Champion...
- I never denied it and I never declined that help. I always said that KGB general Heydar Aliyev has done a lot for me to become the Champion. He created proper conditions for playing. If not him, maybe I wouldn't become the Champion in 1982 and 1984"|
|Mar-04-13|| ||tzar: <Jafar219: There were many boring games at Karpov-Kasparov match.They both were playing under USSR flag.And Kasparov`s victory was somewhat political decision of USSR leaders, because they wanted new champion.> Maybe they were very boring for you...not for everybody...Morover, it is clear that Heydar Aliyev helped Kasparov to be able to participate in international tournements and to travel abroad when there was some interest in preventing it, but the rest of your comment is lacking any evidence.|
|Mar-13-13|| ||tzar: Nice photo on this page which reflects the begining of the match, although the room in which they play look very modest and discreet. On the bottom, in Spanish, it can be read "at that time a certain rivalry separated the two men, which later became bitterness"|
|Aug-29-13|| ||Maatalkko: What were the exact financial arrangements of this match? I remember reading that Alekhine had to raise $10,000. Did he pay this with personal funds? Was there some split of the prize money, or did Capablanca get to just keep it? |
And is there truth to the rumor that part of the reason a rematch never occurred is that Alekhine demanded the same conditions from Capablanca, and Capablanca was never able to meet them?
|Aug-30-13|| ||beatgiant: <Maatalkko>
<I remember reading that Alekhine had to raise $10,000. Did he pay this with personal funds?>
Buenos Aires Chess Club provided the funds for the match.
<Was there some split of the prize money, or did Capablanca get to just keep it?>
The London Rules provided that Champion keeps 20%, and the remaining 80% was split 60% to the winner and 20% to the loser. That means Capablanca got to keep $2000 off the top plus another $3200 as the loser of the match. Alekhine got the remaining $4800.
<the reason a rematch never occurred>
I've never seen evidence that Capablanca raised any serious amount of money for a stake, let alone $10,000.
|Aug-30-13|| ||offramp: The Wall Street Crash of 1929 came at the worst possible time for Capablanca.|
|Aug-30-13|| ||RedShield: Both World Wars also proved very inconvenient.|
|Aug-30-13|| ||KlingonBorgTatar: Capa initiated these WC rules at the London Tourney of 1922 and ironically these very same rules got back at him. I am not sure but I think these London rules were also stipulated in the WC contract to govern the rematch. Capa was not the first "victim" however. Rubinstein and Nimzo issued a challenge but was not able to raise the amount.|
|Aug-30-13|| ||Maatalkko: Thanks <beatgiant>. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, $10K then is $134K now. So Buenos Aires CC was very well funded compared to its modern brethren, but World Champions played for much less.|
|Aug-31-13|| ||beatgiant: <offramp>
<The Wall Street Crash of 1929 came at the worst possible time for Capablanca.>
Yes, and WWI followed by the Russian Revolution, Polish-Soviet War, hyperinflation in Germany, etc. came at the worst possible time for Capablanca's potential challengers in 1922-1927 (Rubinstein, Spielmann, Nimzowitsch, Alekhine).
|Aug-31-13|| ||waustad: <beat>Not to mention Schlechter who came so slose before, who had just died in Vienna of malnutrition. These were not good times in much of the world.|
|Aug-31-13|| ||RedShield: <It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way--in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.>|
|Aug-31-13|| ||Caissanist: I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but the interview with Capablanca about this match, reprinted in Edward Winter's Chessnotes #7134, is quite interesting: http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... .|
|Sep-09-13|| ||WCC Editing Project: < Gypsy: <Hesam7> Bradley Beach, New Jersey offered to host the Capablanca-Alekhine return match in 1929. I <<<presume>>> that was for the right sum.
But Alekhine chose to play Bogo in 1929 instead. Nothing realy wrong with that. But combined with the Stock Market crash later that year, I personally do not think Alekhine had any moral grounds to single out Capablanca for the higher sum requirements afterwards.>|
I am looking for any evidence that the presumption here is true? Any help from anyone would be appreciated.
I have a contemporaneous magazine and newspaper sources that do mention <Bradley Beach> wanted to host a rematch in 1929, but I have yet to find any mention that the organizers had indeed secured the $10,000 purse.
|Sep-09-13|| ||WCC Editing Project: <MichAdams: <By the way, why Capa didn't show up for his game to Alekhine in the 1939 Olympiad? Does anybody know?>
Neither player showed up. It was agreed prior to the round that both players would be rested.>|
<Alekhine> showed up for France's 12th round match up against Cuba and defeated Alberto Lopez Arce:
Alekhine vs A Lopez Arce, 1939
<Capablanca> rested during the 12th round.
In an article originally published by the Argentine newspaper
"Critica," <Capa> explains why he rested this round, but he does not disclose any actual details about his feelings about facing <Alekhine>:
<"I should like to explain my absence, which was due partly to personal reasons... A week ago I notified the Argnetine Chess Federation that <<<I did not intend to play against Alekhine,>>> and I explained my reasons for this decision.">
<Capa> did not include the explanation for these reasons in the article.
|Sep-09-13|| ||TheFocus: "Capa Ducks Alekhine!"
Read all about it.
|Sep-09-13|| ||WCC Editing Project: <TheFocus> heh...
You know I'd give everything I own (which isn't much) to read that letter Capa sent to the Argentine Chess Federation. I wonder if anyone has ever tried to dig it up?
That would be like finding King Solomon's mine eh?
|Sep-09-13|| ||TheFocus: I wish <Winter> had it.|
|Sep-09-13|| ||WCC Editing Project: <Akavall: <Gypsy> Do you by any chance know what exactly Bradley Beach baking was? Did Capablanca just had, say, document where Bradley Beach stated their williness to support Capa, or did they actually have some money down? And if so how much?
As far as I understand, Bogoljubov had nothing when Alekhine accepted the match with him, and it took Bogoljubov a while to even get the initial $500 in.|
Premium Chessgames Member Gypsy: <Akavall> That is a question for a true chess historian.>
Yes I am looking for <a true chess historian> to help me find any actual primary evidence that <Bradley Beach> had the full $10,000 purse ready for a Capa challenge.
I would like any primary evidence that mentions any dollar figure these organizers may have actually had in hand for a rematch.
|Nov-27-13|| ||RedShield: I need help.... looking for an article somewhere online wherein Capa writes to the organising committee of the Buenos Aires match making his excuses for not attending the official ceremony at which Alekhine was to be declared the new champion. Saw it recently, meant to bookmark it, but have completely lost the scent.|
|Nov-28-13|| ||aliejin: Once I have asked those responsible for chessgame
of where they got the information of bradley beach offer ....
They told me that he was taken from other site
I do not remember now the name of that that site,
but at the time I visited
This site did not have any evidence ..... But I remember a
funny statement .... said euwe lost with alekhine in 1937
because Flohr, replacement of fine at the last moment, as a second,
had not been up to Eliskases level , second of alekhine!
In 1927 Capablanca did not attend the coronation ceremony of alekhine
|Nov-28-13|| ||jessicafischerqueen: <Red Shield>
Here is the new intro to this event, which will replace the old one in the near future. You'll find it at the top of the intro to this games collection:
Game Collection: WCC: Capablanca-Alekhine 1927
The source you're looking for is cited in the new draft, and here it is for you to look at:
12 "Magazine Actual” May 1997, p. 25. In Edward Winter, “<Chess Note 3428>.” Retrieved from http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/...
You'll see a photograph of the actual letter here.
|Nov-28-13|| ||jessicafischerqueen: <aliejin> You are mentioning a detail from the intro to this event: |
Alekhine-Bogoljubov World Championship Match (1929)
The citation for the Bradley Beach offer in that intro is from <Graeme Cree's> web page here: http://graeme.50webs.com/chesschamp...
You'll note, however, that the Cree page does not mention that the Bradley Beach organizers had come up with the required $10,000 purse.
There is currently no contemporaneous evidence that they raised this sum.
You can read about it here in the new intro, which will replace the old one in the near future:
Game Collection: WCC:Alekhine-Bogoljubov 1929
This intro will replace the existing one in the near future.
Here is the relevant passage from the new intro, with proper citation:
"The challenger's obligation to raise a $10,000 purse would be the main obstacle to a rematch. In 1928 American organizers offered Bradley Beach, N.J. as a venue, but there exists no evidence that they ever raised the required purse.
And here is the citation:
 W.H.W.,"Daily Mail" 16 November 1928 p.17. In Edward Winter, Chessnote 8193,http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/....
This contemporaneous source mentions that Bradley Beach tried to organize a rematch, but the source makes no mention that the organizers actually had raised the required $10,000 purse.
As you know, this purse was "required" by <Alekhine>, who held <Capablanca> to the same strict London Rules that he had been held to by <Capablanca>.
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 27 OF 27 ·