< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 75 OF 75 ·
|Jul-02-13|| ||offramp: Fischer was definitely following the rules of one of Steinitz's matches. Steinitz was one of Fischer's heroes. |
What was odd is that a 1975 match would never have reached 8-8 or 9-9.
It would've been roughly 10-5 to one player or the other.
|Jul-03-13|| ||Everett: <First of all, I'll make a tour of the whole world, giving exhibitions. I'll charge unprecedented prices. I'll set new standards. I'll make them pay thousands. Then I'll come home on a luxury liner. First-class. I'll have a tuxedo made for me in England to wear to dinner. When I come home I'll write a couple chess books and start to reorganize the whole game. I'll have my own club. The Bobby Fischer ... uh, the Robert J. Fischer Chess Club. It'll be class. Tournaments in full dress. No bums in there. You're gonna have to be over eighteen to get in, unless like you have special permission because you have like special talent. It'll be in a part of the city that's still decent, like the Upper East Side. And I'll hold big international tournaments in my club with big cash prizes. And I'm going to kick all the millionaires out of chess unless they kick in more money. Then I'll buy a car so I don't have to take the subway any more. That subway makes me sick. It'll be a Mercedes-Benz. Better, a Rolls Royce, one of those fifty-thousand-dollar custom jobs, made to my own measure. Maybe I'll buy one of those jets they advertise for businessmen. And a yacht. Flynn had a yacht. Then I'll have some more suits made. I'd like to be one of the Ten Best-dressed Men. That would really be something. I read that Duke Snyder made the list. Then I'll build me a house. I don't know where but it won't be in Greenwich Village. They're all dirty, filthy animals down there. Maybe I'll build it in Hong Kong. Everybody who's been there says it's great. Art Linkletter said so on the radio. And they've got suits there, beauties, for only twenty dollars. Or maybe I'll build it in Beverly Hills. The people there are sort of square, but like the climate is nice and it's close to Vegas, Mexico, Hawaii, and those places. I got strong ideas about my house. I'm going to hire the best architect and have him build it in the shape of a rook. Yeah, that's for me. Class. Spiral staircases, parapets, everything. I want to live the rest of my life in a house built exactly like a rook. (on what he'd do when he won the world championship)>|
|Jul-03-13|| ||harrylime: I love this page because it's an irresistible magnet for ALL the Fischer 'haters' on this site .. |
Fischer's only opponent back then was himself... end of.
|Jul-03-13|| ||Everett: < harrylime: I love this page because it's an irresistible magnet for ALL the Fischer 'haters' on this site ..
Fischer's only opponent back then was himself... end of.> |
Oh, he didn't play any games back then?
Fischer's story and life are fascinating, yet I dislike some kibitzer's attempts to lie about his life and legacy. He, like anyone, deserves better than fanboyism and haters. The real Fischer is great enough. No need to lie about it, nor ignore the warts.
|Jul-03-13|| ||harrylime: ^^
The 'warts' are all very well known as you indeed know ..
Bobby's only opponent was himself.
|Jul-03-13|| ||Everett: < harrylime: ^^
The 'warts' are all very well known as you indeed know ..
Bobby's only opponent was himself.>
Quite dramatic, that last line! I wonder who's ego he was crushing, who he was making "squirm" for all those years. Himself?
Maybe you are right. In this case, it seems, after 1972, he lost that match.
|Jul-05-13|| ||optimal play: <<<<Chess title>|
AMSTERDAM, Monday (AAP-Reuter). — >
America's Bobby Fischer would defend his world chess title against Soviet challenger Anatoly Karpov in Manila next June, the International Chess Federation said today. The Philippines Government offered $A3,800,000 last month in prize money if the match was staged in Manila. Mr Karpov's choice of venue has not yet been announced.>
- The Canberra Times (ACT) issue Tuesday 4 February 1975>
|Sep-05-13|| ||offramp: A first-to-10-wins match would definitely have taken a long time. I seem to remember Fischer thinking that after 3 months there might have to be a break. |
For a start, both men were very hard to beat. Karpov lost 1 game in 1973, 3 games in 1974 (2 to Viktor Korchnoi) and, in the year when the F-K match was supposed to take place, just the one game - to Ulf Andersson.
In Fischer's great run of 1970-72 he lost 6 games while playing against the best players in the world.
Karpov-Korchnoi Candidates Match (1974) ended up 3-2 to Karpov after 24 games. So the F-K match would certainly be longer than that.
I think that owing to rustiness on Fischer's part, combined with strong opening preparation from Karpov and Karpov's habitual way of starting matches off well, I'd say that Karpov would take an early lead. If that happened I would expect Fischer to abandon the match for some reason.
If he continued I'd expect two long series of draws. Fischer would end the match strongly, possibly winning something like 4 or 5 wins out of 6 or 7 games.
The match would be 60-64 games and Fischer would win 10-6. The match would last 5 months.
|Feb-26-14|| ||Sally Simpson: Hello Again Off-ramp.
I think Fischer's off the board antics would have got to Karpov. These ploys upset him v Korchnoi in the '78 match.
On Karpov's side he would have come to board loaded with anti - Fischer TN's supplied by someone who at one time had the indian sign on Fischer. Efim Geller.
Geller was in the Spassky camp in '72 but Fischer avoided his lines. With Pircs, Alekhines and the QGD. They could not nail him down apart from the poison pawn game.
Also Spassky was a tad lazy. He was invited to look at the possibility of Fischer playing 1.c4 or 1.d4 but Spassky replied: "Fischer would never play that."
Again I think Bobby would have ducked Karpov's TN's. Then it is man v man and Karpov never had his aura then, he was still unproven. Fischer had it in spades.
Also the length of the match would have told on the '75 Karpov.
SO (IMO) '78 is a Fischer win.
Fast forward to 1978.
Karpov was Karpov then but he would have to qualify. He would have had to take on Korchnoi to get to Fischer. Defending his '78 title Karpov had to play no one and yet Korchnoi nearly nicked it.
But Karpov was a brilliant player then and we have to add years to Booby's age. So '78 is (IMO) Kaprov.
|Feb-26-14|| ||keypusher: <Everett> I just saw "Hannah and Her Sisters" -- it's fun to read that monologue in Woody Allen's voice.|
|Mar-01-14|| ||Everett: <Again I think Bobby would have ducked Karpov's TN's. Then it is man v man and Karpov never had his aura then, he was still unproven. Fischer had it in spades.>|
Karpov never got beat by an "aura," only by better players. And Karpov did not have crazy TNs most of the time, just beat everyone in '74 "man v man." And he drubbed Spassky without his aura, smashed Polu without his aura (and in his opponents favorite Sicilian), and basically had a WC match vs Korchnoi where he coasted at the end to make it close.
Who knows who would have won in '75, but this line of argument certainly sucks.
|Mar-01-14|| ||Everett: <keypusher> right!? That would be funny to hear. The Fischer rant is so unreal, so unbelievably surreal, yet there it is.|
|Mar-01-14|| ||AylerKupp: "I do not believe in auras, I believe in good moves" – A. Karpov|
Well, he <could> have said it. :-)
|Mar-01-14|| ||WhiteRook48: There's no real definitive proof that a victory would happen in Fischer's favor, or in Karpov's favor. There's no significant discrepancy in how they performed against different opponents. Spassky, Taimanov, Larsen, Smyslov, etc. all had minus scores against both of them. The only real way to tell who was better would be if they actually played against each other (which, unfortunately, never happened). I have to wonder... in what circumstances would Fischer have agreed to play Karpov? In Fischer-random? An <informal> match? A blitz informal match?|
Also, looking back at it, the "first to ten wins" thing <is> kind of ridiculous. Alekhine-Capablanca 1927 and the first Karpov-Kasparov match both dragged out for months, and in neither case did anyone reach ten wins.
Supposing a match with the ten wins requirement actually had been played, Fischer or Karpov or both might have had a mental breakdown from the stress of having a match dragged out for half a year.
Maybe that's the reason. I don't know.
|Mar-02-14|| ||Sally Simpson: Hi Everett:
We have nothing else to go on but speculation. But speculation is good.
Fischer's board OTB presence was well known (it does play an important at that level) Karpov would not have experienced anything like it.
I'm sure Karpov would have been well versed with a few opening suprises. (that Sicilian Dragon v Korchnoi comes to mind.)and the Russians did arm their players v Fischer.
Game one of the Fischer - Petrosian match.
They gave Petrosian a TN (the history of where it come from is in itself stuff from spy novels.) Petrosian messed about and Fischer won.
But my theory 'sucks'.
OK. It was a suck it and see theory.
I did not see much of a counter argument, Polugaevsky let the occasion get to him, he had good chances for wins but froze (R.Byrne 'The New King Anatoly Karpov).
Spassky's second Efim Geller switches to the Karpov camp prior to the
match forcing Spassky to go into the arena firing blanks.
Even so Spassky wins the first game and in his own words relaxes and could not get into top gear for the rest of the match.
(read into just another chess excuse but more about that later.)
So to suck my own theory I have to fight Karpov's case as well.
You have got me arguing with myself, I hate arguing with myself.
I always win, but then again I always lose.
The argument against a Fischer '75 win is surely Kaprov's play after he was awarded the world title.
He set out to do everything Fischer said he would do and played and played
wiping out all before him as if to prove he was a worthy champion.
And he did, 7 tournament wins between 75 and 77 is incredible.
You cannot argue with stats like.
Fischer would have had his hands full with this kid.
That is proof you can slap down on the table and you have the games to prove it. (no games from the '75 match - that is all speculation.)
No (previous) World Champion ever came close to putting together a run of tournament wins like that in so few years.
(Somebody check Kasparov, we might be able to add 'ever' instead of 'previous').
Also he lost the first game v Spassky and came back to win the match.
So any talk of him not producing under pressure needs to be watered down.
See I can make a good case for Karpov as well.
But then you went spoilt it all by saying:
"...a WC match vs Korchnoi where he coasted at the end to make it close."
No. he had a mini collapse losing games 28, 29 and 31.
He blew good positions by trying to outplay Korchnoi whilst the latter was in time troube. In game 22 with the score 4-2 in his favour he played on instead of sealing and walked into a Korchnoi trick.
He had things to know/learn about himself in match play in '78. Things in '75 Fischer would have exploited.
But you are right.
"Who knows who would have won in '75?"
But we either speculate and discuss our opinions or - well nothing.
And nothing means I end up arguing with myself and I do that all the time when I'm at the Take-Away.
"Do I want fish and chips or chips and fish?"
I finally get around this buying a portion of chips from one shop and a single fish from another shop.
|Mar-02-14|| ||HeMateMe: Is Sally your favorite simpson's character? I know it is a popular show in the U.K.|
|Mar-02-14|| ||Everett: <Sally: "...a WC match vs Korchnoi where he coasted at the end to make it close."|
No. he had a mini collapse losing games 28, 29 and 31.>
I didn't spoil anything. That's 1978, not '74, which is what I was discussing (remember, Polu, Spassky, and "basically a WC match with Korchnoi" of 24-games)
Anyway, that's it for me thanks for the back and forth.
|Mar-02-14|| ||Sally Simpson: Hi HeMateMe:
Marge, Lisa, Maggie....
If a Sally has been born then that episode has not made it across here yet.
Pete Townsend gave me Sally Simpson (it's all in the profile.)
I think everyone should have niks based on names heard in songs. There are 100's to choose from.
Elanor Rigby, Pinball Wizard, Judy in Disguise, Matt the Finger and Louie The King.
|Mar-02-14|| ||HeMateMe: Hi Lisa. I'm not a Simpson's junkie, so it was just a stab in the dark--like Mack the knife! Ha!|
Not familiar with Pete Townshend's sally simpson, though I've owned or heard all of his records. I do know of Little Billie, Uncle Ernie, slip kids and Mary Anne (with the shaky hand).
|Mar-02-14|| ||Sally Simpson: Sally is on the 'Tommy' album as is 'Captain Walker' and the 'Gypsy Queen'.|
|Mar-02-14|| ||HeMateMe: I like Tommy, but it isn't my favorite Who album. Quadraphenia and Who's Next are my favorites.|
Have you listened to Psycho Derelict? There's a live version of it on utube, Pete Townshend at the Brooklyn Acacemy of Music, 1993, I think. I listened to it just a couple of days ago. He starts the show with some old Who songs, then goes into this sort of theatrical event, where an aging rock star, Ray High (Townshend's alter ego) is a beat up old slag who just does drugs and hides indoors. Not on the same level as Tommy, but interesting in a way. It has a lot of spoken parts.
|Mar-03-14|| ||Sally Simpson: No, not heard Psycho Derelict, pretty well set in my ways musically, everything after 31st Dec 1969 is naff. (except of course Blondie and the Pistols)|
Fell sorry for the kids of today, no leaders. We had Lennon, Jagger, Dylan, Davies, Catch 22, Fischer's My 60 and The Daleks.
All this lot have is....well who do they have to look up to rock the establishment? Susan Boyle, squeaky clean Boys Bands, Harry Potter, BCO II and politically corrected Daleks.
|Mar-03-14|| ||john barleycorn: <Sally Simpson> your post reminds me of:|
"We had Bob Hope, Johnny Cash and Steve Jobs. Nowadays, we don't have hope, cash or jobs."
|Mar-03-14|| ||Absentee: <Sally Simpson: Fell sorry for the kids of today, no leaders. We had Lennon, Jagger, Dylan, Davies, Catch 22, Fischer's My 60 and The Daleks.>|
|Mar-03-14|| ||Sally Simpson: It's true though.
I think God popped back to see how were getting on after a few millions years and said "OOPS!" waved his hand and the 60's happened.
We won't be seeing him again for another million or so years, (he's a very busy being) and the planet is going to hell in a handbasket.
We need some youngsters of the ilk mentioned above to appear and shake things up and sort things out.
I thought that female Russian punk band Pussy Riot were going to kick it off but they keep getting themselves thrown in jail.
He's out they somewhere, a spotty faced kid with an attitude and a guitar.
Search the bedsits and garages in your neighbourhood, we have to find him.
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 75 OF 75 ·