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Fischer vs FIDE, 1975
Fischer forfeits.

After defeating Spassky in 1972, Bobby Fischer stopped playing serious chess, turning down several lucrative offers to play in public.

Fischer, circa 1971 In 1974, Fischer's challenger was decided: he was an emerging Russian chess superstar, Anatoly Karpov, who had defeated Korchnoi in the candidate's final to earn him the right to challenge Fischer.

In September, 1973, Fred Cramer, Vice President (Zone 5) of FIDE, proposed that the world championship match be decided on 10 wins, draws not counting. He also proposed that the champion retains his title if it were a 9-9 tie. This became known as the Cramer proposal. Fischer telegrammed FIDE informing them that they should adopt the Cramer proposal.[1]

Opponents of the proposal argued that the unlimited format is impractical, and that the 9-9 rule affords the champion too great of an advantage. Proponents claimed that the proposal would encourage exciting chess (because draws do not count) and that it more accurately determined the better player. Fischer argued the merits of the proposal in a 1974 letter to FIDE:

The first player to win ten games, draws not counting, with unlimited number of games wins the match. If the score is nine wins to nine wins, draws not counting, the champion retains title and the match is declared drawn with the money split equally. Versus the old system of the best of 24 games wins the match (12.5 points) and if 12-12 the match is drawn with the champion retaining the title and prize fund is split equally. Draws do count in this system.

The unlimited match favors the better player. This is the most important point, because in the limited game system the match outcome can turn on a very low number of wins, giving the weaker player a chance to "luck out." Also, in the limited game system the player who takes a game or two lead has an advantage out of all proportion. This creates an added element of chance. The player who wins the match should be the player who plays best over the long run, not the player who jumps off to an early lead.[2]

In June, 1974, the FIDE Congress in Nice approved the 10-win regulation and the elimination of draws from the scoring, but imposed a 36-game limit and rejected the 9-9 proposal. On June 27, 1974, Fischer sent a telegram from Pasadena, California to the FIDE Congress:
As I made clear in my telegram to the FIDE delegates, the match conditions I proposed were non-negotiable ... FIDE has decided against my participation in the 1975 World Chess Championship. I therefore resign my FIDE World Championship title.

In March, 1975, an extraordinary FIDE Congress was held in Bergen, Netherlands, and it was agreed to have an unlimited number of world championship games, but still refused the 9-9 rule (32 votes for it, and 35 votes against it). [3] Fischer, unwilling to budge, refused to defend his title.

In Karpov's memoirs he recounts how he was disappointed to not have a chance to become champion in the traditional manner:

I don't know how Fischer feels about it, but I consider it a huge loss that he and I never played our match. I felt like the child who has been promised a wonderful toy and has it offered to him but then, at the last moment, it's taken away.[4]

On April 3rd, 1975, Karpov was declared the 12th World Champion.

FOOTNOTES

  1. Robert James Fischer, by Bill Wall
    2 Bobby Fischer letter to FIDE, 1974
    3 Robert James Fischer, by Bill Wall
    4 Karpov on Karpov: Memoirs of a Chess World Champion, by Anatoly Karpov, Athenuem Press, 1992.

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 122 OF 122 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  john barleycorn: Guys, due to the mysteries of "copy&paste" my given numbers on the effect of the "9-9 tie" rule were wrong.

Result # of ways to achieve the result
10-0 1
10-1 10
10-2 55
10-3 220
10-4 715
10-5 2002
10-6 5005
10-7 11440
10-8 24310

9-9 48620

In fact, the probability for a "9-9" is 0,357. Maybe, it is "fairer" than a rematch clause.

Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <<Joshka: Karpov barely beat Korchnoi> Karpov's score against Korchnoi is 31 to 14.>

Karpov's matches with Korchnoi in 1974 and 1978 are clearly the most relevant in determining Karpov's strength in 1975-78.

Karpov's combined score was +9 -7 =40. Korchnoi was a difficult opponent for Fischer, too, but <Joshka> is right for once. that, logically speaking, Fischer would've been a betting favourite at the time.

Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  john barleycorn: <MissScarlett: ... Korchnoi was a difficult opponent for Fischer, too, but <Joshka> is right for once. ...>

I hope <Joshka> will sweat out the dineros for your premmy ...

Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: Just think, the money he saves by cutting his own hair could buy me premium membership in perpetuity. The chess world lost one genius; don't let it happen again.
Dec-20-17  beatgiant: <Joshka>
<BOTH players can only win the match if they have a +2 score>

Do you get the point that there are two targets, <the title> and <the cash prize>? Maybe we need to spell this out, since you keep ignoring it in your posts.

Let's say the prize fund was $3,000,000. (I believe Philippines was offering that much at one point.) And let's say it was 3/8 to the loser, 5/8 to the winner (as it was in 1972). Now, for the <money prize>, a score of 10-8 gets the winner $1,875,000 while a 9-9 tie gets $1,500,000 for a difference of $375,000.

Now how much was the title of World Champion worth in 1975? I think it's hard to argue it was worth less than $375,000.

But please go ahead and post your figure on how much it was worth. And then we can go back to talking about what it meant to <win> and how many points were required of each participant.

Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  john barleycorn: < beatgiant: <Joshka> <BOTH players can only win the match if they have a +2 score>

Do you get the point that there are two targets, <the title> and <the cash prize>? Maybe we need to spell this out, since you keep ignoring it in your posts.

Let's say the prize fund was $3,000,000. (I believe Philippines was offering that much at one point.) ...>

In fact, the Philippines offered 5m.

The other point is that whenever the champ reached 9 points first he could not lose the title. The split of the prize fund is a different story.

Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: Intermezzo: about the 60:40 odds Karpov gave in 2012. Karpov scored 5-0 against Kasparov first in 1984. I already paraphrased that here before.

https://www.ichess.net/2012/05/23/k...

Obviously, the fact that Karpov states this in hindsight, after 37 years, such a quote seems more likely to be added as a *bonus*, with the intention to score some cheap publicity for the series.

Who cares anyway.

Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Lambda: <Karpov's matches with Korchnoi in 1974 and 1978 are clearly the most relevant in determining Karpov's strength in 1975-78.>

They're kind of misleading actually, because Korchnoi was far stronger in that period than he was in the 60s. He's a bit of an anomaly that way.

Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Joshka: <mazymetric> Karpov barely beat Korchnoi in 1974, 3 wins 2 losses and nineteen draws. Then in 1978 Karpov and Korchnoi were tied after 31 games!! 5 wins to 5 wins and twenty one draws. Karpov then won the last game and barely beat Korchnoi 6-5 21 draws. Clearly Fischer would have beaten Karpov who could barely beat an old man in Korchnoi. End of discussion.
Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <They're kind of misleading actually, because Korchnoi was far stronger in that period than he was in the 60s.>

I wasn't claiming anything about Korchnoi's strength in the 1960s with respect to Fischer. But, yes, I think Fischer would've played at a higher level in the mid-70s than Korchnoi did.

Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: *sighs* world championship matches are usually decided by the player who has the strongest nerves in the end IMHO. It's all about confidence.

There are so many factors which play a role at such level, that we can impossibly determine the outcome of an event which never took place.

Besides, Korchnoi was about 12 year older than Fischer, still they have a +2 -2 =4 score.

Karpov is about 12 years older than Kasparov. Karpov was highly favorite before the 1984 match began. And even a bit longer...

http://archive.spectator.co.uk/arti...

Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <<johnbarleycorn> No. the Champ has to win only 9 games to secure the title. The challenger has to win 10 which means to win at least "two in a row" (draws not counting)>

I thought I made it as clear as it could be in that post that there were two different situations, the winning of the match and the gain/retain the WCC title. The <winner> of the match needed to win 10 games, draws not counting, in order to be declared the match winner and get the winner's share of the prize money. Incidentally, he would also gain the WCC title. The <defending champion> needed to win 9 games, draws not counting, in order to <retain> the title. If the match score reached 9-9 the match would be declared drawn (there would be no match winner) and the two players would split the match money 50/50.

Now, if my understanding is wrong, please correct me.

And I think that Karpov saying that "he" estimated Fischer's chances to be 60:40 in the match is hilarious. Fischer's rating differential of +75 over Karpov results in a P(Fischer Win) = 0.60 and a P(Karpov Win) = 0.40 per the FIDE rating tables developed by Dr. Elo. Coincidence? I doubt it. You have to take what Karpov says with a grain of salt.

Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <<Joshka> Well, the rules, are easy for me to understand, don't know why others can't see it.>

You'll have to ask <johnbarleycorn> that question.

<Then you can always look at it this way........Karpov barely beat Korchnoi (20 years his senior) in 1978. ... Karpov himself even said there would have been only one result in 1975>

Karpov never would have said that there would have been only one result in 1975. He correctly estimated that the winner of the match would likely be Fischer. But the fact is that, however unlikely, there could have been 3 results in his 1975 match with Fischer; a win for Fischer, a win for Karpov, or a drawn match.

No one should assume that the results of one match or the results of individual encounters can be used to reliably predict the outcome of future events. One only has to look at last year's WCC match; no one but the most ardent Karjakin fans gave him much of a chance against Carlsen. Carlsen's rating differential over Karjakin was 81 points, higher than Fischer's rating differential against Karpov. Yet the match score was tied after 12 classic time control games, and it was Carlsen who had to win one of the last 3 games in order to force the match into the Rapid time control games phase.

Karpov never would have said that there would have been only one result in 1975

Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <WorstPlayerEver> about the 60:40 odds Karpov gave in 2012. ... Obviously, the fact that Karpov states this in hindsight, after 37 years, such a quote seems more likely to be added as a *bonus*, with the intention to score some cheap publicity for the series.>

As I said earlier, the +75 rating differential in Fischer's favor translates to a 0.60 vs. 0.40 of Fischer vs. Karpov winning the match per the FIDE tables developed by Dr. Elo, given that draws didn't count. Karpov didn't have to wait 37 years to provide this estimate, he could have provided it <before> the match took place. And so could have anyone else who understood how FIDE's rating system worked.

Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: <AylerKupp>

Yeah, but ELO rating is usually gathered in tournaments. And then we even did not discuss 'luck' so far.

Chess is a game of luck. If your opponent makes an excellent move, you have bad luck, and if your opponent makes a bad one you have good luck.

Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  john barleycorn: <AylerKupp: ...

Now, if my understanding is wrong, please correct me.

... Coincidence? I doubt it. You have to take what Karpov says with a grain of salt.>

Nothing wrong with your understanding maybe my consent with it was not so clear. As I said 9 wins for the champion were enough to secure the title but the split of the prize money is a different story. We are in total agreement here.

I cited Karpov from his DVD series on Fischer not as the ultimate instance for truth but just to show how <Joshka> distorts things. Karpov as to my knowledge never said something like "In 1975 there would have been only one winner...Fischer"

Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <It's all about confidence.

There are so many factors which play a role at such level...>

Wot?

Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Joshka: <AylerKupp>< he correctly estimated that the winner of the match would likely be Fischer> Allright you admitted it yourself. In plenty of interviews, I've heard him so I'm not making things up!! Again a match that never happened over 40 years ago, gets more coverage than current trends in World Chess Championship play now. World Chess basically was buried when they forced Robert Fischer to the sidelines. Doubt in my lifetime I'll ever see it's revival. Good luck to ya!:-)
Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: <MissScarlett>

Chairs.

Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: You're welcome.
Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: <MissScarlett>

Likewise :)

Dec-20-17  nok: <<Karpov's matches with Korchnoi in 1974 and 1978 are clearly the most relevant in determining Karpov's strength in 1975-78.> They're kind of misleading actually, because Korchnoi was far stronger in that period than he was in the 60s.>

They're also misleading in that they were the equivalent of a basketball team leading by 20 at halftime and easing up.

Dec-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: Did Karpov ease up on Kasparov, too?
Dec-20-17  nok: He did grant him half a point in Linares '94.
Dec-31-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  wwall: My wife met Bobby at Joan Targ's (his sister) home in Portola Valley and gave him all the Inside Chess magazines that he requested from Seirawan and Donaldson in 1990. No one expected him to be there, so I missed a golden opportunity. I think Bobby was proficient in Spanish and could read Russian. As close as I got was taking to his lawyer about an interview in 1991. My uncle, a school teacher in Palo Alto, knew the Targs well and her kids were in his classes. My understanding was that Joan could speak 7 languages and the kids were all proficient in several European languages. Not sure if Bobby had the same aptitude for languages.
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