< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
|Apr-11-08|| ||Petrosianic: <plang> <Because they had played 2 previous matches; the candidates final in 74 and a wc match in 78.>|
Actually three previous matches, if you count their 6 game training match in 1971.
|Apr-11-08|| ||Petrosianic: <Operation Mindcrime> <Whether Korchnoi's defecting, or his son's dodging the draft, constitutes "disrespect for Soviet law" is a debatable point.>|
My understanding is that he didn't. Dodge the draft, that is. He was promised that he'd be allowed to emigrate if he surrendered his passport. Once he'd handed it over, they drafted him as a way of reneging on the deal.
<acirce> <Finally, I wonder how Ingolf figures that insulting Karpov and the Soviets left and right helped Korchnoi to get his family out.>
Not sure, but if Korchnoi had really wanted his family out, he could have had them at will, simply by refusing to play the match if they weren't released.
Karpov's title was still extremely shaky after winning it without play. The world would not have accepted him as world champion by default twice. The Soviets desperately needed an over-the-board victory for Karpov in a championship match, and Korchnoi had something the Soviets needed. He sold it to them awfully cheap.
|Apr-11-08|| ||Knight13: <Petrosianic: <Knight13> <Korchnoi's son is a freakin' idiot.>
A generic idiot, or did you have something in mind?> His dad did all that stuff for/because of him and he just screw up and get arrested. Might've even cost his dad the match!|
|Apr-11-08|| ||Knight13: "Cost his dad the match" I mean like he doesn't get to play Karpov and gets aborted.|
|May-07-08|| ||chess61: <Slomarko> Your question is valid and very logical. This should not be called a "rematch". Korchnoi had to qualify. If we stick to World Chess Championship terminology, this is not a rematch.|
|May-07-08|| ||chancho: Muhammad Ali had to fight other fighters after losing to Joe Frazier in 1971 and their second fight in 1974 was called a rematch.|
|May-07-08|| ||Petrosianic: Rematch just means, informally "a second contest between the same oopponents". Even in chess you can see it used that way, as you can see by going to any server and looking for the "Rematch" button after playing a game.|
It's not, of course, a rematch in the narrower sense (i.e. an <automatic> title shot granted to a defeated champion), so there could be room for misinterpretation.
|Sep-20-08|| ||seeminor: There is a rather interesting piece of footage on youtube of Karpov meeting Breshnev in front of the politburo after he had beaten Korchnoi. Karpov looks like a small boy being congratulated by his drunk grandfather. Perhaps the most amusing part is the initial introduction, where Karpov briefly holds out his hand, and Breshnev ignores it. Karpov quickly pulls his hand away and smiles politely while Breshnev rattles on.|
|Oct-24-08|| ||hedgeh0g: A completely unfair match, psychology-wise. Then again, given the Soviet Union's human rights record, something like this shouldn't come as a surprise. Anything to win, right?|
|Oct-24-08|| ||Petrosianic: Korchnoi could have stopped it. He could have refused to play in 1978 unless his family were released. The world would not have accepted Karpov as world champion by default twice.|
The fact that he later married the secretary he had while his wife was stuck in the USSR might have something to do with why he didn't.
|Oct-24-08|| ||Petrosianic: <Perhaps the most amusing part is the initial introduction, where Karpov briefly holds out his hand, and Breshnev ignores it.>|
Remembering how Brezhnev was in 1978, he might not have even noticed it.
|Jan-22-09|| ||talisman: i like the new picture.|
|Mar-01-09|| ||WhiteRook48: think this tore away their society|
|Sep-29-10|| ||myschkin: . . .
"Das Brett ist der einzige Platz, an dem er sich erholen kann."
(by Mikhail Tal)
Hör auf, du kleiner Wurm!
"... Alle Aktivität im Gefolge Karpows war dieses Mal leise. Der geradezu feierlich übereinstimmenden Bemühung einer Truppe, die zusammenhielt wie ein Brückenkopf, stand Kortschnois Ensemble gegenüber als ein bunter Haufen von Exoten und Versprengten. Seine Sekundanten flirteten mit Mädchen, verschlangen Cartoons, indes Karpows Mannen Zug für Zug sofort analysierten. ..."
(by Peter Brügge, Der Spiegel 48/1981)
|Apr-22-11|| ||offramp: <chess61: <Slomarko> Your question is valid and very logical. This should not be called a "rematch". Korchnoi had to qualify. If we stick to World Chess Championship terminology, this is not a rematch.>
I agree entirely. This match was NOT a rematch.|
|Apr-22-11|| ||HeMateMe: <The fact that he later married the secretary he had while his wife was stuck in the USSR might have something to do with why he didn't.>|
Did Korchnoi really remarry while his wife and son were held back in the USSR? Maybe he thought they would never be allowed to leave. Did he divorce his wife?
|Apr-22-11|| ||talisman: <HeMateMe> Ah Petra, Dr. Zoukhour, Korchnoi was always going for the Big W...the Win and Wuv.|
|Apr-22-11|| ||talisman: Mmmmm...that was 1978 talisman...drink another cup of coffee and stop talking to yourself.|
|Dec-13-12|| ||Fusilli: <Petrosianic: Korchnoi could have stopped it. He could have refused to play in 1978 unless his family were released. The world would not have accepted Karpov as world champion by default twice.>|
I suspect you are overestimating how much the world would have cared, although we will never know.
On the other hand, I am pretty sure that if he had beaten Karpov and become the world chess champion, then his chances of being heard and supported by the international community would have been much stronger. In other words, the best possible scenario for him would have been to become world champion, and I am sure he had blind confidence that he would.
|Jan-07-14|| ||offramp: The word <rematch> in the title really gets on my tits. It makes it look as if Karpov said, "That match in 1978 was so close I'm gonna let you have a rematch, free of charge!"|
A rematch is what Botvinnik had 2 of!
|Mar-13-15|| ||offramp: This match was a massacre. Kortschnoi was on the back foot for the whole match. Game 13 was his sole achievement. His other win was a bit lucky.|
Kortschnoi was level with Karpov in 1978, but in 1981 Karpov was at an apotheosis.
|Mar-13-15|| ||Howard: Now you know the reason that the match was sometimes referred to as the "Massacre In Merano".|
Out of fairness to Korchnoi, he got off to an extremely poor start in that match, scoring only a draw out of the first four games. For the remainder of the match, he was able to steady himself, but it was way too late by then.
|Mar-13-15|| ||Petrosianic: He was down by the same 4-1 score in the first match and made it competitive.|
|Mar-13-15|| ||Joshka: <offramp> Correct, this was not a REMATCH. Korchnoi fully qualified. Korchnoi was given nothing!. But he was a bit lucky Bobby was not playing, cause he would not have played in any World Championship Matches. Bobby and Karpov would have had their duals!!|
|Mar-14-15|| ||Howard: Regarding Petrosianic's comment, your point has been made before. But please bear in mind the number of games involved in these two instances. In the 1978 match, it wasn't until 17 games that the score was 4-1, with 12 draws. In the 1981 contest, it was only 9 games before it became 4-1--a rather significant difference.|
To put it another way, Karpov's play in the second match had been superb, including for those first nine games--probably the reason few people were giving Korchnoi much of a chance after those first nine games. But in the first match ?! Let's see.....Karpov should have damn well lost Game 5 and it was by a miracle that he drew. He should have lost Game 7, too, but then (to be fair) so should Korchnoi. And in the infamous 17th game, Karpov should have lost that too, but won.
As I see it, 4-1 in the first match was a different ball game than in the second one.
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