< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
|Apr-22-11|| ||talisman: Mmmmm...that was 1978 talisman...drink another cup of coffee and stop talking to yourself.|
|Dec-13-12|| ||Fusilli: <Petrosianic: Korchnoi could have stopped it. He could have refused to play in 1978 unless his family were released. The world would not have accepted Karpov as world champion by default twice.>|
I suspect you are overestimating how much the world would have cared, although we will never know.
On the other hand, I am pretty sure that if he had beaten Karpov and become the world chess champion, then his chances of being heard and supported by the international community would have been much stronger. In other words, the best possible scenario for him would have been to become world champion, and I am sure he had blind confidence that he would.
|Jan-07-14|| ||offramp: The word <rematch> in the title really gets on my tits. It makes it look as if Karpov said, "That match in 1978 was so close I'm gonna let you have a rematch, free of charge!"|
A rematch is what Botvinnik had 2 of!
|Mar-13-15|| ||offramp: This match was a massacre. Kortschnoi was on the back foot for the whole match. Game 13 was his sole achievement. His other win was a bit lucky.|
Kortschnoi was level with Karpov in 1978, but in 1981 Karpov was at an apotheosis.
|Mar-13-15|| ||Howard: Now you know the reason that the match was sometimes referred to as the "Massacre In Merano".|
Out of fairness to Korchnoi, he got off to an extremely poor start in that match, scoring only a draw out of the first four games. For the remainder of the match, he was able to steady himself, but it was way too late by then.
|Mar-13-15|| ||Petrosianic: He was down by the same 4-1 score in the first match and made it competitive.|
|Mar-13-15|| ||Joshka: <offramp> Correct, this was not a REMATCH. Korchnoi fully qualified. Korchnoi was given nothing!. But he was a bit lucky Bobby was not playing, cause he would not have played in any World Championship Matches. Bobby and Karpov would have had their duals!!|
|Mar-14-15|| ||Howard: Regarding Petrosianic's comment, your point has been made before. But please bear in mind the number of games involved in these two instances. In the 1978 match, it wasn't until 17 games that the score was 4-1, with 12 draws. In the 1981 contest, it was only 9 games before it became 4-1--a rather significant difference.|
To put it another way, Karpov's play in the second match had been superb, including for those first nine games--probably the reason few people were giving Korchnoi much of a chance after those first nine games. But in the first match ?! Let's see.....Karpov should have damn well lost Game 5 and it was by a miracle that he drew. He should have lost Game 7, too, but then (to be fair) so should Korchnoi. And in the infamous 17th game, Karpov should have lost that too, but won.
As I see it, 4-1 in the first match was a different ball game than in the second one.
|Apr-10-15|| ||A.T PhoneHome: To say Korchnoi was "a bit lucky Bobby was not playing" is true only if Korchnoi had been afraid of playing against Fischer which I highly doubt.|
Anyways, Bobby Fischer stopped playing in 1972. I wonder which accepted branch of logic dictates that because a person stopped doing something, he/she would absolutely beat someone nine years later in the thing in question.
As for this match, Karpov had one title defence behind him. Maybe not the most convincing but a title defence altogether which made it easier for Karpov to come to the second World Championship match.
|Apr-10-15|| ||harrylime: <A.T PhoneHome: To say Korchnoi was "a bit lucky Bobby was not playing" is true only if Korchnoi had been afraid of playing against Fischer which I highly doubt.
Anyways, Bobby Fischer stopped playing in 1972. I wonder which accepted branch of logic dictates that because a person stopped doing something, he/she would absolutely beat someone nine years later in the thing in question.|
As for this match, Karpov had one title defence behind him. Maybe not the most convincing but a title defence altogether which made it easier for Karpov to come to the second World Championship match.>
Fischer stopped playing in 72' ..
Is your argument Victor would've beaten Fischer in 75' ? .. or 78' ?
Ofcourse not ! lol
Petrosian beat a younger Korchnoi in 71 and then Fischer ofcourse breezed past Tigran ...
A motivated Fischer would've killed Karpov and ALL his "red carpet" "advisors" ....
|Apr-10-15|| ||A.T PhoneHome: With all due respect <harrylime>, you can't possibly know that. It is also true that I can't prove the opposite end and that's simply because we didn't have Fischer playing after 1972.|
And my post concerned year 1981. So you cannot expect me to answer to your question as I never addressed those two years.
By the way, I share your admiration for Bobby Fischer and I consider him to be one of the greatest so don't get me wrong. But I don't understand why we should draw hypotheticals on things that never took place and say that Fischer would win games that were never played. The fact Fischer stopped playing in 1972 doesn't suddenly make his results bad.
|Apr-10-15|| ||Petrosianic: <A.T PhoneHome>: Before you waste too much time here, I should warn you that Harrylime is about a 1200 player, fanatically in love with the Bobby Fischer legend, but absolutely despises the real Fischer for not living up to the myth he's built. Presenting facts to harry will make no difference, he'll simply giggle and forget them.|
|Apr-10-15|| ||perfidious: Not to mention finding, or inventing, arguments which transcend unpleasant realities.|
|Apr-10-15|| ||A.T PhoneHome: <Petrosianic> Before I registered here, I went through quite a few games and read the kibitzing and I saw him kibitz on many of those games so I knew his stance before I posted here so it's okay. He has his stance and I have mine and I can certainly share my take on something.|
And being a 1200 means being stronger than me! :P
|Apr-10-15|| ||Petrosianic: <A.T PhoneHome>: <Before I registered here, I went through quite a few games and read the kibitzing and I saw him kibitz on many of those games so I knew his stance before I posted here>|
Yeah, but you seem to actually know something about the events that transpired. The question isn't really about stances so much as about ability (or lack of ability) to discuss them intelligently. If you want to waste your time, go ahead, I just didn't want you to be taken off guard.
|Apr-10-15|| ||A.T PhoneHome: <Petrosianic> Thank you for the first statement, seeing it's a compliment! And it's not necessarily wasting time. After all, I am not disrespecting Fischer or anyone for that matter. If my posts on this subject matter weren't of constructive manner, I'd be wasting my time.|
|Oct-14-15|| ||offramp: When you play through these games it seems to be Kortschnoi defending bad position after bad position, right the way through except for the 2 games he won. Karpov really made only 2 bad moves: 40.Nf1 in Karpov vs Korchnoi, 1981 and 31...Ne1+ in Korchnoi vs Karpov, 1981. Karpov was on top form and would have beaten anyone in the world.|
|Oct-14-15|| ||Petrosianic: Yes, this match is very different from 1978. Korchnoi is now over 50, and the Career Renaissance he had in the 70's is winding down. But even so, Karpov's blunder at the end of Game 6 made the match seem closer than it really was.|
But if not Korchnoi, then who? Had Huebner won the Candidates Final, would he have done any better? Or Portisch or Polugaevsky, or a 9-year retired Fischer, or a not-yet-ready Kasparov? Really, there just wasn't anybody in 1981 to give a really good challenge.
|Oct-14-15|| ||offramp: <Petrosianic> Yes, Hübner, I think, would have been annihilated 6-0 by Karpov. The only person capable of putting up resistance in 1981 was Kortschnoi. He as annihilated.|
|Oct-14-15|| ||Howard: Portisch would have put up stiffer resistance than Huebner would have, notwithstanding the upset Huebner scored in his 1980 candidates match.|
Given Korchnoi's vast match experience--including two previous matches against Karpov--he really was the best qualified to challenge Karpov in 1981.
|Oct-14-15|| ||Nerwal: Tal was undefeated in 1981 after a disastrous 1980. At least it would have been an entertaining match. It's a pity so many Karpov - Tal games were quick draws.|
|Oct-14-15|| ||plang: As much as I love Tal I don't think Tal would have had any chance against Karpov in 1981 (even the Tal of 1960 versus the Karpov of 1981 would not have been close in my opinion)|
|Oct-19-15|| ||Howard: As Benko pointed out in Chess Life back in 1980, the "deaths of his (Tal) mother and brother added to his emotional burden" in 1980.|
|Jan-08-17|| ||The Boomerang: A motivated Fischer would've killed Karpov and ALL his "red carpet" "advisors" ...."|
Puth myth fueled by your Fischer fever....it's how you sell Bobby....
So wait, Korchnoi has an equal score against Fischer but would have stood no chance is that the logic?...
I read somewhere Korchnoi gave the match up in 1971 as Russian authorities wanted the stronger player to play Fischer out of Korch and Tigran with Tigran accepting the challenge lol.
Karpov and obviously kasparov would have been a huge test for Fischer, botht hese guys would kill the same competition Bobby has 70-71 easily, you do know that Kasparov had a 15-1 record against Korchnoi!! And Karpov 14-2 over Spassky!!
|Jan-08-17|| ||The Boomerang: Geez even Karpov said that '71 match Tigran and Petrosian looked fishy.....|
Obviously Efim Geller or Korchnoi would have been a better match for Bobby due t their personal records, with Geller even having a positive record over Fischer.
Fischer was raised to the highest pedestal of all time, after his 70-72 run not even God would beat Fischer is that correct?
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·