< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
|Jul-26-15|| ||Chessman1504: In that documentary, what's interesting to me is how Kasparov claims Karpov's choices against 1.e4 don't "fit his style." It seems a little stereotypical how he says Karpov doesn't understand the Spanish game, like a "Karpov is a positional player. He doesn't get dynamics" sort of thing.|
|Jul-26-15|| ||TheFocus: Such stupid remarks by Garry.
Karpov is considered a great expert in the Ruy Lopez. Black or White.
|Jul-26-15|| ||RookFile: Imagine if Karpov could go back in time with the Berlin wall knowledge that we have today. That would have really been something.|
|Jul-27-15|| ||Chessman1504: <RookFile> Indeed! I wonder how, in the event that Karpov won the match, Kasparov would have reacted if Karpov said, "Kasparov's choices against 1.e4 e5.. hmmm, don't really fit his style, especially the Berlin." I'll bet Kasparov wouldn't be too happy about that.|
|Jul-27-15|| ||Chessman1504: <TheFocus> Yeah, I wonder what Kasparov was recommending for Karpov? The Caro-Kann? Karpov did not use the Caro-Kann frequently until the 90's, as in, he didn't use it as his main weapon against 1.e4. He also would rack up a disappointing record against Kasparov in later years.. but who knows? Maybe he could have given it a shot.|
|Jul-27-15|| ||offramp: The Zaitsev Variation of the Spanish is very sharp. I think Karpov only played the Zaitsev because he knew Igor Arkadievich Zaitsev well. I don't think it's his style, either. But one problem is that Karpov won the very first Spanish the two ever played:
Kasparov vs Karpov, 1985.
But then over the next six years Karpov lost 5 Zaitsevs, won none and managed to draw 9.|
So what should Karpov have played in response to Kasparov's 1.e4. Obviously not the Sicilian. Nor the French, Karpov only ever played one French and he lost that: Geller vs Karpov, 1976.
Karpov did try the Caro-Kann against Kasparov, but he lost 4, won none and drew three; that's even worse than the Spanish!
If he had played the Berlin he would certainly have done better than he did with those Zaitsevs and CKs. But it might just have meant that Kasparov swirched to 1.d4 and 1.c4.
|Jul-27-15|| ||Chessman1504: Well, yes, though in the last Caro-Kann, he was clearly past his prime and got out-prepared. When he tried it in World championship matches before 1990, he got comfortable draws. Maybe he could have tried, though his winning chances were admittedly slim.|
|Jul-28-15|| ||Everett: < offramp: The Zaitsev Variation of the Spanish is very sharp. I think Karpov only played the Zaitsev because he knew Igor Arkadievich Zaitsev well. I don't think it's his style, either. But one problem is that Karpov won the very first Spanish the two ever played: Kasparov vs Karpov, 1985. But then over the next six years Karpov lost 5 Zaitsevs, won none and managed to draw 9.>|
All true, but let's remember that Karpov defeated nearly everyone else with it. He was just outstanding on the Black side of the Ruy. And he also had some near-wins as well.
Kasparov was also outstanding with the Grunfeld vs. most everyone... except Karpov.
|Jul-29-15|| ||Everett: Further, Karpov by nature is a kingside castle-guy and q-side attacker. In that case, the Ruy Zaitsev is right up his alley. |
Again, Kasparov was the only one ever to make him pay for this opening. Karpov had a smattering of losses here and there with it, but really only Kasparov could see through all the complications.
In a way, it was the definition of styles. Kasparov always went after the king when he had the opportunity, and Karpov was always a super efficient minimalist defender of his king when focusing on his q-side aspirations.
|Jul-30-15|| ||offramp: Karpov did well, I suppose, to keep the rampaging Kasparov at arm's length. Other players, such as Short and Anand, were pretty much blown away.|
|Jul-30-15|| ||perfidious: The results between these titans are testimony to the greatness of both.|
|Jul-30-15|| ||HeMateMe: "The prize fund was three million dollars, with 5/8 going to the winner. In case of a tie, the prize fund would be shared equally with Kasparov retaining the title."|
I wonder if the rules regarding a large portion of a Soviet player's winnings kicking back to the state were still in place, at this time?
|Jul-31-15|| ||Chessman1504: <Everett> That's interesting how you characterize Karpov. I sometimes think the whole style thing at top levels is a little overblown, but even between two of the top five strongest players ever (arguably), there were clear differences in their preferences.|
|Jul-31-15|| ||offramp: <HeMateMe: "The prize fund was three million dollars, with 5/8 going to the winner. In case of a tie, the prize fund would be shared equally with Kasparov retaining the title.">|
5/8 seems a bit too much. Certainly 6/8 would be totally unfair; it would be almost 3/4.
Perhaps 4/8 would have been the fairest.
|Jul-31-15|| ||HeMateMe: I like 2/5 and 3/5.|
|Jul-31-15|| ||offramp: <HeMateMe: I like 2/5 and 3/5.>|
That might be too much of a disparity. I think 3/5 to the loser and 4/5 to the winner sounds about right.
|Jul-31-15|| ||HeMateMe: Sounds very Orwellian, but we ARE talking about the USSR...|
|Jul-31-15|| ||Rolfo: <perfidious: The results between these titans are testimony to the greatness of both.>|
|Jul-31-15|| ||Howard: The 25th anniversary of this match will, of course, be later this year.|
|Jul-31-15|| ||morfishine: <offramp> Yes, all these "Ruy Lopez, Closed" games are in fact "Zaitsev" variations and should be titled as such...IMO|
|Jul-31-15|| ||RookFile: Definitely great matches, very exciting to watch them.|
|Aug-02-15|| ||offramp: From games 3 to 15 there was only one win, with 12 draws. This large number of draws was not even noticed at the time because compared to the 1984/5 match it was a wee-wee in Europa's frozen ocean. |
Also, all the games were very hard fought, except perhaps the Petroff in game 10.
Perhaps the New Yorkers would have been a bit unhappy with only 2 wins in 12 games.
|Aug-02-15|| ||HeMateMe: I think people were ok with the draws because it was the KKs playing. We all knew how good they were, two of the three best players of the past 20 years.|
kasparov probably had clear memories of what happens when you push too hard against Karpov (losing 4 of the first 9 games in the first match), so his caution radar was up. This wasn't Jan Timman or dzindzichashvili, it was Tolya the Terrible he was playing.
|Aug-02-15|| ||Olavi: <morfishine: <offramp>> Karpov played 9...Nd7 a couple of times, and that's not Zaitsev. I'm not quite sure what it should be called, here it's Keres defence, but that's 9...Na5 10.Bc2 c5 11.d4 and only now 11...Nd7.|
|Aug-02-15|| ||morfishine: <Olavi> Yes, you are right Zaitsev has Re8 followed by Bf8|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·