< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 4 ·
|Apr-09-07|| ||Chess Classics: Never fear, ChessBase is covering the event! http://chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp...|
Talk about in-depth reporting...
|Apr-09-07|| ||percyblakeney: Looking at the latest photo one wonders if Kosintseva read the comment on her page about her not being camera shy since she didn't hide from the Corus photographer :-)|
|Apr-09-07|| ||micartouse: Well, she sure has nothing to be shy of. What a charmer! I hope she keeps up her performance.|
|Apr-09-07|| ||THE pawn: <virginmind> Is this a joke? |
If not, know that most women playing chess still attend university, raise a family (forget chess during pregnancy)and have another job. They spend A LOT less time studying chess and therefore they have no chance against folks like topalov, Kramnik etc. who spent there entire life analysing games. They did a women section for this tournament because it gives women a chance to have a title. To say that women have less brain power is disgusting.
|Apr-09-07|| ||alexmagnus: Women DO play chess worse. Not only at the top level. According to the statistic of the chess federation of one of my neighbour countries, the average woman (of all the members of the federation) plays at 1450 level. The average man does at 1600.|
|Apr-09-07|| ||alexmagnus: And it's not about brain power in general (which is equal). It's about a differently working brain.|
|Apr-09-07|| ||THE pawn: Show me some (valid) sources that clearly state what you say.|
|Apr-09-07|| ||acirce: How valid is a neurologist who also is an IM? LazyPawn on ICC = Dan Vasiesiu http://www.chessclub.com/finger/Laz...|
I saved some things he said about the issue once.
LazyPawn(IM) kibitzes: for instance in the male brain spatial thinking activates a much larger number of neurons from both emispheres... in women it's just a very small area
LazyPawn(IM) kibitzes: and the opposite is true regarding verbal/language skills, where women are clearly superior
LazyPawn(IM) kibitzes: but as you know chess is more about spacial thinking than talking
LazyPawn(IM) kibitzes: so that's the issue
|Apr-09-07|| ||alexmagnus: Here the statistik of the Swiss Chess federation:
Average Rating (everybody): 1758
Averade Rating (women): 1569;
Average Rating (juniors): 1573
Average Rating (girls): 1484;
|Apr-09-07|| ||Timex: Tatiana is at a 6/6!!|
|Apr-09-07|| ||sitzkrieg: <ThePawn> Why is it disgusting to say something that may be true?|
|Apr-09-07|| ||Troglodyte: Just like women and men use different parts of their brains to achieve similar IQ scores, women can use different part of their brains to play chess. It's not a handicap, and those differences are minor and vary a lot. Judit Polgar, for example, isn't some unique mutation in the human race, there are many women like her and similar to her, they are just rare, just like the Capablancas and Karpovs are rare in men. |
I would bet anything that if as many women played chess as men we would have the female Kasparov in no time. (we already have the female Tal :) )
|Apr-09-07|| ||WarmasterKron: There's also a mathematical explanation for the gulf in ratings between men and women, that being that a female player would have to compete almost exclusively with male players to achieve anything close to a 2700 rating.|
|Apr-09-07|| ||THE pawn: <sitzkrieg> I'm not disgusted at how acirce for instance exposed the facts, I'm disgusted at how <virginmind> sound. Unless I misread, he simply said women are inferior: sorry,but I can't take that.|
|Apr-10-07|| ||percyblakeney: 7/7 for Kosintseva now, impressive to lead a field of 150 players with 1.5 points (and that while being ranked 10th).|
|Apr-10-07|| ||JointheArmy: <acirce> Just make sure Susan Polgar doesn't read that.|
|Apr-10-07|| ||virginmind: <THE pawn> ok, i'll reformulate, women have less brain power in what regards the spatial thinking (which is chess specific) - and that may explain their worse results chess-wise, when compared with men. as about university attending or having another job, these are apliable also to men, not only to women. the only true reason for impending on performance is pregnancy, and with this i agree.|
i never said women are less smart than men generally - and i agree with <acirce> in the link he provided that in verbal/language skills women are superiour to men. so, as you can see, i acknowledge the fact that women may have more brain power than men in this field (verbal/language skills), but i dont qualify this as "disgusting", i just take it as a fact.
|Apr-10-07|| ||virginmind: <WarmasterKron> true, as i was about to add in my previous post: look at the huge number(almost 200) of male players in dresda with elo between 2500 and 2700, while in women section there is only one. but still, nobody stops any woman to compete in men section(as polgar regularly did it), in order to get higher rating, why don't they do it?|
|Apr-10-07|| ||acirce: <JointheArmy> Susan Polgar? I don't know, she appears to have her own interesting ideas.|
<Although I can’t help feel Shabalov was somewhat joking, I wish that GM Susan Polgar had been when she gave this somewhat dubious reason for why men are better strategically at chess than women: “Women are rarely given the freedom to think abstractly. Men are often afforded the luxury of having their basic tasks, like laundry and cooking, taken care of. Women are usually compelled to focus on the details of life. This is the root of why women are equal to men in tactics, but still lag behind men in strategy.”
Not only do I find this statement absurd, I suspect that if a man had said it most female chess players would cry sexism in a heartbeat.
Without doubt the most shocking section of chapter one is when Shahade says that Michael Khodarkovsky, a Russian trainer of none other than Kasparov, who while working with the women’s Olympic team said, “ I know that feminism is popular in the United States, but in Russia we understood that women and men play differently. With this in mind, you should never be ashamed to tell your trainers the most intimate details…or when you may not be able to play one hundred percent.” He was referring to menstruation!
Shahade says that upon hearing this, she thought she had entered the twilight zone! And it didn’t help when GM Susan Polgar, a fellow teammate, followed up with, “Now, menstruation may not require that someone take a day off, but it might affect, for instance, the choice of opening.”> http://www.chessville.com/reviews/C...
|Apr-10-07|| ||sitzkrieg: Ugh, no more details please.
I'm not disgusted at how acirce for instance exposed the facts, I'm disgusted at how <virginmind> sound. Unless I misread, he simply said women are inferior: sorry,but I can't take that.>
Women maybe are "inferior" in some ways, less good that is. Saying it is imo not disgusting, nothing wrong with pointing out differences.You shouldn't overreact, I don't think you can blame <virginmind> here.
|Apr-10-07|| ||alexmagnus: <I would bet anything that if as many women played chess as men we would have the female Kasparov in no time. (we already have the female Tal :) )>|
Well, there seems to be some gap. There is only one woman in top 200. If both men and women were equal in chess and the gap was just number-related, then it would suggest that we would have 5 women in top 1000. But we have 16 of them (and at some times there were 21).
|Apr-10-07|| ||alexmagnus: BTW will T.Kosintseva ever in this tournament play someone who is higher rated than she? She got quite lucky with the oppoenents until this moment.|
|Apr-10-07|| ||percyblakeney: <She got quite lucky with the oppoenents until this moment>|
Her opponents have been fairly strong though, all of them above 2300 and the last ones 2400+.
|Apr-10-07|| ||acirce: And we have 45 in the top 2000. Looks like the women/men ratio increases as we go down the list.|
|Apr-10-07|| ||percyblakeney: Rating wise Kosintseva's result this far is actually better than if Anand scores +7 in 7 games against Shirov, and she has had black in most of the games. I don't doubt that there will come a draw or two soon though...|
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