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|Jul-05-07|| ||jhoro: <Karpova: Deep Fritz is stronger than Deep Junior> it's seems the opposite is more likely. their "Ultimate Computer Challenge" ended 4:2 for Junior
... and that was mentioned before, but ChessBase said "Junior had just finished a match against Fritz in Elista and could not make it to the tournament"
and Fritz wasn't in a mood after the loss i guess
|Jul-05-07|| ||alexmagnus: Why did TheKing, GridChess Micro-max and Diep play less than 11 games?|
|Jul-05-07|| ||Karpova: <jhoro: <Karpova: Deep Fritz is stronger than Deep Junior> it's seems the opposite is more likely>|
a match between two comps (with Junior having better hardware) is practically meaningless (as should be well-known). And it's not a scecret that Deep Fritz played a 20 games match against Deep Junior for the "Brains in Bahrein" challenge against Kramnik in 2002 where Junior won the first five games (!!) just to tie the match in the end and lose the tie-breaks 0-2.
A six games match is nothing but advertisment and has no meaning or relevance.
If you want to compare the engines you have to test them and there are enough people out there who do so:
(the SSDF site seems to be down and the last time I checked it there was no Fritz 10 yet but only Fritz 9).
|Jul-05-07|| ||MarvinTsai: I found that most of the games in this tournament played more than 40 moves, and many of them even above 100 moves, rarely occurred in GM games. And I recalled a story: in certain computer checker tournament, among the 72 games played, 69 of them are drawn, this meant the strength of programs are very close. So there is no computer checker tournament anymore, because it's meaningless...|
Maybe the end of computer chess is near too.
|Jul-05-07|| ||Justawoodpusher: Interesting, there are 21 wins with white compared to 23 wins with black.|
Does this mean that the advantage of the white pieces is for humans rather due to psychological reasons? Does anyone have a larger statistic for computer games?
|Jul-05-07|| ||HolyKnight: I love this tournament.
1. No GM Draws
2. Some games go out to 100 moves or more!
3. They play all sorts of openings.
Too bad Human GMs don't do this more.
|Jul-06-07|| ||alexmagnus: 21 wins with white, 23 wins with black and 19 draws.... And GMs dare to say that they play many draws because they play too perfect??? I bet they'd lose against most of these engines.|
|Jul-06-07|| ||SwitchingQuylthulg: Well, look at last year's WCCC: 32 wins with white, 40 with black and 21 draws.|
|Jul-06-07|| ||Robin01: I do not see Fritz or ChessMaster in the group. What happened to those two?|
|Jul-06-07|| ||WarmasterKron: <MarvinTsai> Draughts is a far less complex game than chess. Chess has millions more legal positions, and a much greater choice of moves in a given position. Such is the strength of computers in draughts that it is actually close to being solved. It's been proven that with perfect play, the starting player cannot lose.|
By contrast, the prospect of solving chess is very remote indeed. The end of computer chess? It would be nice, but unlikely.
|Jul-08-07|| ||jhoro: <Karpova>, bringing up a match from 2002 doesn't make much sense either. according to CCRL Deep Junior 10.1 beats Deep Fritz 10 (+11−7=12)|
|Jul-08-07|| ||Karpova: <jhoro: <Karpova>, bringing up a match from 2002 doesn't make much sense either.>
It makes much sense. It's just that you didn't get it.|
< according to CCRL Deep Junior 10.1 beats Deep Fritz 10 (+11−7=12)>
Both lists show Deep Fritz 10 beating Deep Junir 10. And Deep Fritz 10 got a higher rating than Deep Junior 10 on both lists (and a higher one than Deep Junior 10.1).
|Jul-09-07|| ||JustWoodshifting: <Robin01>
The Chessmaster uses "The King" engine, and competed in this tournament as The King.
It had a miserable tournament, which surprises me, after a decent showing last year for a middle-of-the-road program.
|Jul-09-07|| ||jhoro: <Karpova: <jhoro: <Karpova>, bringing up a match from 2002 doesn't make much sense either.> It makes much sense. It's just that you didn't get it.>|
back in 2002 some tweaks can make an engine play stronger and come from -6 as in your example. it is much less likely to happen today.
<Karpova:Both lists show Deep Fritz 10 beating Deep Junir 10>
read the last line from the link i provided again. the latest DJ 10.1 is <+4> on DF 10 out of 30 games on 4CPU's
|Jul-10-07|| ||Goofy: As to the world's computers getting close to perfection I say they are 90% there. I've studied this stuff for years myself including every major tournament held by GM's and computers writing my own programs. Being from Glenmora, LA a nice small laid back relaxing town, may mean I had time to invest just that needed into it, although I live now elsewhere, but I think Fritz could win and chess grid can do even better than Fritz given time and how well it plays. Eventually my bet will be on Grid if they can get more than 200 games in there in its program. If these two put their programs together it would be much better. My program contains all the best of the best I think it could beat them all if someone wants to program it to play them I'd supply the moves.|
|Jul-10-07|| ||s4life: <Goofy> you've been studying this stuff for years and you think Fritz can beat Rybka? ^^|
|Jul-10-07|| ||Goofy: yes, its information based on various patterns i've based on some Einstein principals employed on chess. some of it is from biblical data that suggests white only wins in a perfect match if black makes only 1 mistake otherwise its a perfect tie in any perfect moves perfect match.|
|Jul-10-07|| ||Shajmaty: <Goofy: [...] a perfect match if black makes only 1 mistake [...]> With a mistake, it's no longer perfect! U R talking nonsense, dude...|
|Jul-10-07|| ||s4life: <Goofy> you shouldn't use pot in the morning..|
|Jul-10-07|| ||alexmagnus: Actually, there are symmetrical positions where white moves and black wins.|
|Jul-15-07|| ||Karpova: <jhoro: back in 2002 some tweaks can make an engine play stronger and come from -6 as in your example. it is much less likely to happen today.>|
Which tweaks and why should only Fritz have cashed in on those alleged "tweaks"?
DF's bad start was rather attributed to the opening book which had to be adjusted to his opponent.
At least it shows that a six games match is not enough to judge their strength (but this should be common knowledge. It's therefore quite surprising that anyone would bring it up to strengthen his point)
Btw., Deep Fritz lost the first 5 games (not six as you write) and then didn't lose another one.
<jhoro: <Karpova:Both lists show Deep Fritz 10 beating Deep Junir 10>
read the last line from the link i provided again. the latest DJ 10.1 is <+4> on DF 10 out of 30 games on 4CPU's>
Surprisingly (again) you completely ignore the facts:
First, that's what I wrote:
<Both lists show Deep Fritz 10 beating Deep Junir 10. And Deep Fritz 10 got a higher rating than Deep Junior 10 on both lists (and a higher one than Deep Junior 10.1).>
Deep Fritz 10 achieves a higher rating than Deep Junior 10 and Deep Junior 10.1 on both listts and on both lists he wins the direct matches against Deep Junior 10. The fact that another, more advanced, version of Deep Junior beats Fritz in their match (but ends up with a lower rating which still supports my initial point (before you even entered the discussion) that it's quite unlikely that DF 10 would have ended up worse than DJ 10 had both of them participated) is irrelevant.
|Jul-29-07|| ||Amulet: <Goofy>: So there is none single iota of chance that the strongest manchessplayer will prevail against the strongest chess program(RYBKA).|
|Jan-29-08|| ||Open Defence: hmmm Shredder fared so poorly ?|
|Feb-14-09|| ||WhiteRook48: micro-Max played so poorly|
|Jul-02-11|| ||MJW 72: Lol. Mirco-Max finshed ahead of Rybka due to the DQ.|
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