< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 6 OF 7 ·
|Feb-01-08|| ||Eyal: <Ezzy: <ganso: anybody know how many FIDE rating points Nake gained in Gibraltar?> I think he said in an interview that he gained about 10 points putting him in the 2700 club.> That was Bu, actually... (in the chessvibes video)|
|Feb-01-08|| ||Rolfo: Is it possible to take a "tactical loss" in Swiss system, let say in first half just to get some rounds of lower rated opponents? I don't say somebody does, but it would give this effect I think..|
|Feb-01-08|| ||Eyal: <Rolfo> But you might get to play some opponents who also took such "tactical losses":-)|
|Feb-01-08|| ||SetNoEscapeOn: <Rolfo>
It is definitely possible, and is used by several players in the U.S to try and maximize their prize money.
Usually, it takes the form of a draw in the first round ot a lower rated opponent. In the U.S, this is called the "Swiss Gambit"...
|Feb-01-08|| ||percyblakeney: <I'm not a particular Nakamura fan, but I sure would like to see how he would do in one of the elite tournaments>|
I agree, and it's fun with some variation in the tournaments, even games like Anand-Kramnik can get a bit repetitive when they face each other so often (and it's often said that the game means nothing since what counts is some later tournament or match). For example Nakamura-Kramnik and Zvjaginsev-Anand once in a while would be interesting.
|Feb-01-08|| ||TheSlid: <I'm not a particular Nakamura fan, but I sure would like to see how he would do in one of the elite tournaments.>|
That's good, because he might score, like -5 at Linares, for instance. Openings too dodgy and wastes a lot of time on them. Just a tic-tacs man at that level, I'm afraid.
|Feb-01-08|| ||Eyal: <TheSlid: <I'm not a particular Nakamura fan, but I sure would like to see how he would do in one of the elite tournaments.> That's good, because he might score, like -5 at Linares, for instance.>|
Even so, it would be crucial for him to start gaining experience in elite tournaments if he seriously wants to keep progressing. Carlsen finished last with a -4 score (and no wins) in last year's Corus, but I'm sure the experience helped him a lot.
|Feb-01-08|| ||percyblakeney: Vallejo played five Linares in a row and always scored better than -5, maybe Nakamura would get a similar result.|
He isn't totally without experience against fairly strong opposition, having played in Corus B when he was 16. There he won against players like Bruzon and Tiviakov. Bruzon had an even score in Corus A the next year, and a year after that Tiviakov managed to get the same result.
Nakamura also played in Biel 2005, where he was leading with +2 after 7 rounds, ahead of players like Gelfand and Volokitin, but lost his last three games.
|Feb-01-08|| ||ajile: I'm looking forward to the day when Nakamura gets his butt kicked by Grischuk or Radjabov in a world class blitz tournament. Hopefully there will be videos on youtube. I don't care for arrogant rude chessplayers like him. Being talented doesn't excuse anyone from being a jerk.|
|Feb-01-08|| ||pawnofdoom: Nakamura is a cool guy and I have watched him play. But I just wish to bring up the fact that there is a video on YouTube of him playing blitz against Var Akobian at the World Open Blitz this year. It comes to show how rude he was. Made comments, such as when Akobian took a queen (so maybe he could promote a pawn), Nakamura whispered "Psh. Are you kidding me? Its not gonna happen." Nakamura ended up winning the game on time|
|Feb-01-08|| ||Jim Bartle: I just don't see what's so bad about saying, "Are you kidding me?" when the opponent picks a queen and doesn't have a pawn anywhere close to queening. He said it quickly, then went back to the game.|
|Feb-01-08|| ||JointheArmy: To me it was rude on Akobian's part since picking up a queen out of nowhere is nothing but an attempt to unnerve the opponent. It's similar when someone claims win on disconnect when you haven't moved for 5 seconds. You know your opponent wasn't disconnected, but doing that is a huge slap in the face to the other player. Just like Akobian knew he had no chance of queening, but could have done it to offend Nakamura.|
|Feb-01-08|| ||square dance: <I agree, and it's fun with some variation in the tournaments, even games like Anand-Kramnik can get a bit repetitive when they face each other so often (and it's often said that the game means nothing since what counts is some later tournament or match). For example Nakamura-Kramnik and Zvjaginsev-Anand once in a while would be interesting.> completely agree. hopefully now naka can get invited to some of the bigger events. i think he would be a good fit in Mtel if the field wasnt already set.|
|Feb-01-08|| ||ongyj: <pawnofdoom>Look, its those unobjective critics that keeps biting on the "fact"(looks more and more like a fallacy to me now) that Nakamura was rude. In what way was saying "Are you kidding me" rude? (He didn't actually say "It's not gonna happen.") To look at it objectively, he did prove it on the board that his opponent was really 'kidding'.|
And mind you (and any other kibitzers whose upset about bad attitutes of competitive chess players), such things happen ALL the time. If you actually go and play in ANY tournament I would be surprised if all the competitors you see are 100% gentlemen.
Some "rude behavior" I personally encountered in my short-lived, low level tournament days include 1.The refusal to shake hands before/after a game(with new FIDE rules, at least hand shakes must be done before a game if someone offers it) 2.Refusal to sign the score sheet for resignation gracefully 3.Refusal to rearrange the pieces back after (losing) a game 4.Grumbling about your opponent's defensive style when its his own offensive inaccuracies that cost hte game 5.Accounting the loss solely to one's own mistake rather than giving any credits to the opponent, 6.Hammering every piece capture you make, or banging the clock. 7.Shouting checks so loud that the entire playing hall can hear you (as if a check is necessarily good, or that the loudness makes the checking move stronger in any sense)
My point is, it's all part of the game, and absolutely normal in competitive play, especially at the elite level, where so much is at stake. It may actually be part of gamesmanship, which is perfectly legal so long as it doesn't violate any rules of chess. There are no saints around, or if there are, maybe they don't play competitive chess LOL
|Feb-01-08|| ||Jim Bartle: "5.Accounting the loss solely to one's own mistake rather than giving any credits to the opponent,"|
See "Williams, Venus" and "Williams, Serena."
|Feb-01-08|| ||Shams: I've seen the video and I thought it was rude. Ruder than "talking smack" at any rate, which is at least partly in jest. Nakamura is clearly contemptuous when he says it. Dismissive behavior != sportsmanlike behavior. Yeah, he proved it on the board. So did Garry most of the time against Polgar; does that make him calling her a "trained dog" not rude?|
I like Hikaru, but from that video I have no trouble believing other reports of his rudeness.
|Feb-01-08|| ||ongyj: <Shams> Pardon me, but when did Gary call <Polgar> a "trained dog"? The most I can remember is that he said Polgar "played with a feminine weakness", but whether that was being rude, or whether that was male-chauvanist, I can't really tell for sure. Maybe a mixture of both, perhaps. But not to forget, the entire society was rather male-domineering back then, with more "dilutions" today.|
In any case your example shows that being rude is just a very small aspect of a chess player. How many of us here don't like Gary's chess (contributions)? I'd rather have more Gary Kasparov[Players who can play good chess] in the chess scene than 100 or even 1000 perfect gentlemen that don't play as well.
Okay, so even if everyone else(which I doubt) thinks Nakamura is rude, it has absolutely 0 damping effect in my appreciation of his chess (contributions). In any case, such character(s) reminds me that everyone is different and unique, and we should always accept "apparently different" behavior and attitudes with an open mind ^Ô^
|Feb-01-08|| ||Shams: <ongyj>
take your pick-- the second google link is to my post elsewhere on this site :)
< But not to forget, the entire society was rather male-domineering back then, with more "dilutions" today.> back then? it was in the 90s!
It's odd, I give Fischer a pass for far more damaging stuff, but that's because I see him as stone cold nuts. I love Nakamura's chess but he strikes me as spoiled. No great crime.
|Feb-02-08|| ||Gameoverziggy: < whether that was being rude, or whether that was male-chauvanist, I can't really tell for sure.> Since when is being a chauvanist not rude?|
|Feb-02-08|| ||ongyj: <Shams>Thanks for the links. And I'm sorry to use "back then", though to me 10 years is an awful lot of time as well.|
<Gameoverziggy> <Since when is being a chauvanist not rude?> On the contrary, (male)chauvanism was never considered rude in the "old days" when feminism is an "unknown concept", where the entire society appears to support patriarchy. It was probably a "norm" and the idea to be "rude" doesn't exist. To me, being a chauvanist is only rude in a more modern social setting.
|Feb-02-08|| ||tiger petrosinian: chess players should not be rude. why? simply, they lose a fan like me. and we are many. When djobovich won the australian open Im kinda less excited for the new star because of those explitives and insults he shouted on the court against his opponent. Being rude is a downer.|
|Feb-02-08|| ||ongyj: My point is not to make Nakamura haters like Nakamura (Though somehow I myself was 'converted' through reading the forum posts around chessgames.com), but rather to be fair to Nakamura, as well as the other chess professionals. I am absolutely sure that these kind of things(referrring to the bad habits of competitive chess players, youtube video of Akopian and Nakamura, as well as a few other "episodes") happen all the time, but why is ONLY Nakamura pin-pointed against?
I recall my first Nakamura-bashing(when I was a hater) came when I criticised him on the Zhu chen-Nakamura game, where Nakamura played on in a pawnless end-game, with material advantage due to his superior pieces left(same piece count). But I realised it wasn't a draw as I first believed. A Rook VS a minor piece is draw, but actually nobody knows for sure in a Rook + Minor piece VS 2 Minor Piece. If anything, Nakamura certainly has the rights to play on. I was simply childish. Look at Kramnik-Aronian, 2008, and you will know what I mean. It was absolutely legal, proper and appropriate for Kramnik(or anyone else) to play on in a "tablebase draw", which assumed perfect play from both players.|
I think the next episode came in Nakamura-Sasikiran, where Nakamura used the unorthodox Patzer's opening 1.e4 e5 2.Qh5 which stunned Sasikiran into an hour thinking time-deficit. Again, strong criticisms from Bashers who think Nakamura's not respecting his opponent. Now, why must Nakamura be DICTATED into playing an "orthodox, rationale opening"? Can't he take a risk and possible do a little opening experiment? If he's succeeded he would have become a major contributor to the development of opening lines. If it's such a taboo to use an unorthodox opening, why not just make it a law in chess? "A player who makes the move 1.e4 e5 2.Qh5 automatically gets disqualified". And mind you, even a GM like Sasikiran didn't handle the opening well, Nakamura dropped the game because of a mistake later in the game, nothing to do with his opening choice at all. As pointed by a fellow user around this community, the best refutation is probably 2...Nf6! gambitting a pawn, for an overwhelming development advantage to follow.
If anything, I'd prefer to have more Gary Kasparov's[Good Players] than more perfect gentlemen who play inferior chess ^Ô^
|Feb-02-08|| ||BishopofBlunder: It's nice to see an American win an international tournament now and again. Between Nakamura and Kamsky, maybe American chess doesn't look as bad as I thought.|
|Feb-02-08|| ||offramp: Why would a company that sells giblets sponsor a chess event?|
|Feb-02-08|| ||socnegoti: <I'm looking forward to the day when Nakamura gets his butt kicked by Grischuk or Radjabov in a world class blitz tournament. Hopefully there will be videos on youtube. I don't care for arrogant rude chessplayers like him. Being talented doesn't excuse anyone from being a jerk.>|
LOl!!! Are there any prestigious 1-minute blitz tournaments. :D
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