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TOURNAMENT STANDINGS
Bazna Tournament

Vassily Ivanchuk7/10(+4 -0 =6)[games]
Boris Gelfand6/10(+2 -0 =8)[games]
Teimour Radjabov5.5/10(+1 -0 =9)[games]
Alexey Shirov5.5/10(+3 -2 =5)[games]
Gata Kamsky3/10(+0 -4 =6)[games]
Liviu Dieter Nisipeanu3/10(+0 -4 =6)[games]

 page 1 of 2; games 1-25 of 30  PGN Download
Game  ResultMoves YearEvent/LocaleOpening
1. Nisipeanu vs Ivanchuk 0-1342009Bazna TournamentC92 Ruy Lopez, Closed
2. Kamsky vs Shirov 0-1602009Bazna TournamentA14 English
3. Radjabov vs Gelfand  ½-½322009Bazna TournamentC42 Petrov Defense
4. Shirov vs Ivanchuk ½-½652009Bazna TournamentB30 Sicilian
5. Gelfand vs Nisipeanu 1-0362009Bazna TournamentE97 King's Indian
6. Kamsky vs Radjabov ½-½342009Bazna TournamentB73 Sicilian, Dragon, Classical
7. Nisipeanu vs Kamsky ½-½162009Bazna TournamentC54 Giuoco Piano
8. Radjabov vs Shirov  ½-½372009Bazna TournamentD80 Grunfeld
9. Ivanchuk vs Gelfand ½-½372009Bazna TournamentC42 Petrov Defense
10. Nisipeanu vs Shirov  ½-½312009Bazna TournamentC78 Ruy Lopez
11. Ivanchuk vs Radjabov ½-½372009Bazna TournamentB45 Sicilian, Taimanov
12. Gelfand vs Kamsky  ½-½372009Bazna TournamentD86 Grunfeld, Exchange
13. Shirov vs Gelfand 0-1402009Bazna TournamentE15 Queen's Indian
14. Radjabov vs Nisipeanu ½-½262009Bazna TournamentB01 Scandinavian
15. Kamsky vs Ivanchuk 0-1322009Bazna TournamentB90 Sicilian, Najdorf
16. Shirov vs Kamsky 1-0342009Bazna TournamentB12 Caro-Kann Defense
17. Gelfand vs Radjabov ½-½372009Bazna TournamentE97 King's Indian
18. Ivanchuk vs Nisipeanu 1-0242009Bazna TournamentB80 Sicilian, Scheveningen
19. Ivanchuk vs Shirov 1-0842009Bazna TournamentD80 Grunfeld
20. Nisipeanu vs Gelfand ½-½742009Bazna TournamentC42 Petrov Defense
21. Radjabov vs Kamsky 1-0492009Bazna TournamentB18 Caro-Kann, Classical
22. Kamsky vs Nisipeanu ½-½592009Bazna TournamentD02 Queen's Pawn Game
23. Gelfand vs Ivanchuk ½-½202009Bazna TournamentA04 Reti Opening
24. Shirov vs Radjabov ½-½382009Bazna TournamentB33 Sicilian
25. Ivanchuk vs Kamsky  ½-½552009Bazna TournamentD15 Queen's Gambit Declined Slav
 page 1 of 2; games 1-25 of 30  PGN Download
  REFINE SEARCH:   White wins (1-0) | Black wins (0-1) | Draws (1/2-1/2)  


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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 29 OF 29 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jun-26-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  micahtuhy: What a terrible performance for the American. . . . sigh.
Jun-26-09  HeMateMe: kamsky has a law degree from a mediocre new york law school. If he gives up chess one day to practice law, he will have to take a not so great paying job at a small law firm. Unless he gets into international law, maybe working with Russian--usa trade, that could be lucrative. I have a hunch he went to a crappy law school because (a) tuition is low and/or (b) he had an extremely high score on the LSAT--quite likely--and got a scholorship. Apparently he was also in medical school but dropped out. I hope he finds what he wants. Perhaps being in the world's top ten at something is better than being a doctor or a lawyer.
Jun-27-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  DarthStapler: Ivanchuk is in top form these days
Jun-27-09  Everett: It is very interesting that the "dubious" KID stopped everyone, save Gelfand, from playing d4 vs Radjabov.
Jun-27-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  acirce: How do you know that's the reason? Nisipeanu almost always plays 1.e4, it's the main move of Kamsky and Shirov these days, and Ivanchuk plays everything anyway.
Jun-27-09  Everett: Perhaps it's not the only reason. How do you know it is not the reason?

Further, even with the knowledge that Radjabov will play the KID, for sure, and they don't have to worry about the Nimzo, Grunfeld, QGA and QGD or QID, these top GMs decide to stick with e4. I find it very compelling evidence that the KID is not a dubious opening in the right hands, as some may have us believe.

Jun-27-09  Everett: <HeMateMe> Expert on the educational practices of law schools, or are you going by reputation/prestige/money-machine ratings totally warped by the advertising and endowment systems of universities?
Jun-27-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  acirce: I don't claim to know anything, you were making the statement. It simply seems unlikely to be a main reason if they usually play 1.e4 anyway. But it could be one reason.

Regardless of that I do agree that the KID, from a practical standpoint, is not a dubious opening in the right hands. Perhaps it's not objectively dubious either, but if so, that goes no matter whose "hands" it's in ;-)

Jun-27-09  Everett: Agree with both of your sentiments, <acirce>. One must play what honors one's playing style and temperament to expect success. Unless proven "incorrect" or "dubious", it seems this is the only way to choose openings and positions on the board.
Jun-27-09  HeMateMe: The law school he went to "New York Law", is a bottem tier law school, per the rankings put out by Stan Kaplan and other scholastic services. There is a direct correlation between the quality of your law school and the type of job you get afterwards. At a top 40 law firm (largest ones, in billing and number of associates, the average starting salary is about $160,000 per year. Of course, they work the people to death, the 80 hour week is pretty common. But the people who get these associate jobs at the best firms are from NYU law school, St Johns, U of Chicago, harvard, Yale, etc. I think the Clintons and Obamas all went to Yale Law School. If your family is by chance wealthy, and you can bring large billing into a firm, you can also get a top associates job. John F. Kennedy Jr. was accepted at NYU law school only via his last name, not due to any real talent. He failed the New York bar twice, and probably got through his classes with some help from generous graders. Even with that last name and his mother's riches, he apparently didn't get hired at a big name firm. That may be due to a lack of talent, and, probably, he knew the kind of hours a new associate would have to work. That would cut into frisbee and roller blading time. But--with the right family, you can jump over more qualified people.

But NY Law? (not to be confused with NYU law school) Kamsky was looking at an assistant D.A. job paying $42,000 a year or doing tax returns in Sheepshead Bay. I have a feeling, with his intellect, he is not going to be playing tournament chess past his prime. The prizes he can garner now are bigger than what he could make in a regular profession. But the situation may be different in five years.

I read somewhere he "had studied medicine". I dont know if that means he was a pre-med major in college, or if he was actually in med school. Ultimately, he will probably wish he had become a doctor.

Jun-27-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Marmot PFL: Obama was Harvard.
Jun-28-09  justinbel: HeMateMe: Kamsky has a few options. He can always become a professor at a school, I'm sure there is a university that would love to have him on their staff. Plus he has to have some connections. I can also see him getting involved in FIDE or something like that.

On a side note, he has not passed the his bar exam yet. He failed because his child was born around the time. So practicing law might be far fetched, seeing as he's been away from law for so long, which makes the bar exam that much harder. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/c...

I'm sure he will find opportunities and success in whatever he chooses to pursue.

Jun-28-09  justinbel: Also according to the article i linked, his step mother has a law office so that might help him a just a little bit.
Jun-28-09  HeMateMe: <justinbel> Thanks for the article! Good stuff. I thought i read somewhere he had gone to ny Law. Actualy, Touro is in the same grouping, a low tuition, not-so-competitive law school. I have a hunch if he sits on a new set of law books for a few weeks, he can pass the bar. Its all about desire, for him.

Apparently, when he was 14, it was his decision to defect to the USA. At least thats how I think the papers reported it. He was a huge prospect at 14, like another Kasparov. I think in Chicago he said he wouldn't go back to the Soviet Union/russia. The quote i especially remember is "they have more food here." Very embarrassing to the Politboro. I think the papers here reported that the 14-year-old wanted to stay, but the family was going back to russia. The authorities here allowed him to stay, against public opinion. We wanted another Fischer. Thats how I remember his coming here, could be wrong on the details. But it was pretty gnarly stuff in the news for awhile. I have a feeling that those who interview him are told upfront that there won't be any 'defection' questions.

BTW, his mom's law office sounds like a one person mom and pop firm in little Odessa. May just be divorces, wills, bankruptcys and traffic tickets. Geta may not find that very challenging.

Jun-28-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Marmot PFL: If you are smart enough it really doesn't matter what school your went to. Looks at Gerry Spence (Wyoming), Geoffrey Fieger (Detroit Law College), F. Lee Bailey (Boston U.), none exactly Ivy League.
Jun-28-09  HeMateMe: There are certainly exceptions, but the largest grouping of top paid lawyers are those who get into litigation at the largest firms. I mean, the firms who defend asbestos and tobacco cases, that kind of thing, not drunk drivers and forclosures. If you are in a top law school, you have a better chance of getting a summer asociate job at one of these places, the Dewey Balantines, the Fried Franks, etc.. The summer asoctiate job leads to a job offer. I know a brilliant trial attorney like F.L. Bailey might set off on his own and do well, but by and large, the largest group of high earners found a way to get into the elite schools, and that is the quickest path to the big bucks jobs at litigation firms.
Jun-29-09  justinbel: HeMateMe is absolutly correct. I'm a current Econ major looking at law school and have talked to many people. The consensus was that law school was worth it only if you go to a top 10 school. There is a flooded market of lawyers, and law school is rather expensive. Yes, there are exceptions, but that is few and far between.
Jun-29-09  virginmind: <justinbel...only if you go to a top 10 school> i'd say top 20-25. i have a master's degree from uiuc college of law which was consistently ranked 19th-23th in the past 15-20 years, and i can say teaching was of very high level. well, it's true the uiuc college of law library was ranked 3rd last year, but you get my point.
Jun-29-09  Everett: <There is a direct correlation between the quality of your law school and the type of job you get afterwards.>

No, there is a direct correlation between the <reputation> of your law school and the job you get afterwards. Same goes for all other colleges.

Tell me, how does Kaplan and the others assess "quality" of the education? Are there rigorous tests? Some advanced formulas rating actual competency of graduates?

As far as Kamsky's prospects, I have heard of many chess players having successful careers doing statistical analysis. A mathematical mind, combined this with a law degree, and Kamsky's prospects are only as limited as his imagination. Of course, If he decides to limit himself based on the illusion of inferiority his law degree represents, then he will not get far.

Jun-29-09  HeMateMe: <everett> part of the criteria is the faculty at the law school. Their backround, the depth of their experience in law. The size of the law library is considered, believe it or not. Also, I think they consider the employment records of their gradutates, and what percentage of the graduates pass their respective state bar exams. Of course, assessment services would never put a $ dollar figure on the employment records of their graduates, preferring instead to focus on the prestige of their post law school employment (high government posting, a rise to D.A., or making partner at White and Case, or Sherman and Sterling). But the more 'prestigious' this employment it, the higher dollar salary the lawyer is making, for the most part. So, by extrapolation, the lawyers making the most money come from the highest ranked law schools. Same for undergraduate degrees, as mentioned above.

Gata Kamsky might be better off using that quick analytical mind on Wall Street, home of quite a few 'weak IMs' from american chess. ron Henley was an options trader. Max Dlugy, a U.S. champion, worked on the Street. There are a number of lesser known chess players that gave it up as promising juniors, and are doing nicely on the Sodom and Gommorah that is Wall street. I think James Tarjan, an Olympiad player from the 80s ended up working on wall street, not sure. There is a photo on Susan Polgar's blog site of a simul she did against a Wall Street firm, can't remember the name. After defeating the whole room, she had one board left to finish--a middle aged guy with the GM title! I forget his name, I think an emigree from Russian or Ukraine.

I have a feeling Gata, with a child to support, will choose a profession, in about 5 years or so.

Jun-29-09  timhortons: He might want to become a criminal lawyer and have a very colorfull career/life.

Those grisham novels is really cool.

Jun-29-09  timhortons: <There is a direct correlation between the quality of your law school and the type of job you get afterwards.>

most of harvard law school grad become corporate lawyer right?

ok obama finished at harvard too but he become community organizer afterwards.

Jun-30-09  Everett: <HeMateMe>
Yes, it seems the ranking system is not as complete as Kaplan and others would have us believe. Thank you for taking the time to show that there is no evidence of the assessment of teaching skill nor student competency in these rankings, only extrapolation. Of course, I think many of the things they do rank matter, but it is remarkable how much weight is placed on preconceived notions of past reputations.
Jun-30-09  HeMateMe: < timhortons >

Well, he has so many books out, most of the possible titles are taken. But how about: "The Combination Maker"--Read the new thriller about the chess grandmaster who outwits the corrupt pharmaceutical industry with his subtle machinations! Available now!

Or....."The (not-so-easily) Passed Pawn"--Bounced out of competitive chess on false drug charges and removed from law school by the evil C.O.R.P.O.R.A.T.I.O.N, our protagonist would embed himself in the very apparatus that damaged him and destroy it from within! Available new, as e-book or on kindle.

I may have to write one of my own.

Jul-01-09  I Like Fish: too late...
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