I like how you use the word "best." There's only one school out of millions out there that is "best."

And, no, <just demands a lot of work.> is bullcrap. You don't even go to my school, so what makes you an expert in this area? And why would top colleges take a bunch of us if our education sucked?

I said what I said because of the need-blind (look, the Ivy League only offers need-based aids and not free scholarship monies) admissions. They don't reject students because of money, and there are fewer poor people because they can't afford it. The Ivy League doesn't throw in full-ride to everyone below $100,000 income in a $200,000+ tuition.

I didn't catch up on your "legacy--wrote a blank check to Columbia University" so obviously I've missed something. That doesnt' mean "I know little about Ivy League admissions." The alumini/legacy does help you in admissions, but I didn't know it would help THAT much as you said....

But, seriously, what is your problem with beating people down with your way with words? <little idea of how Ivy League admissions really work?> <When someone makes a wild, unfounded assert> <<I think you're the one blowing smoke....<And it's coming from behind>> When people make one flawed comment they're suddenly know-nothings?

The process at Ivy League isn't arbitrary and they don't select people by drawing numbers. Most people get rejected in a heartbeat, and those select few that remains have 50/50 chance of getting in because they've been labeled as "Ivy League" material. Those peole you said who got pushed over are the 50/50 ones who had a special "legacy" lable.

The admissions is a lot harder than most people think.

It goes like this (this is for people who don't know how the admissions works at top schools):

Let's say...

Overall Acceptance Rate is 30%

That means...

Recruited athletes 75% chance of admission

Underrepresented minorities: 60%.

Alumini Children: 50%.

"Typical" applicants: 15%.

Just because a program demands a lot of work does not mean it is of a superior quality. Just because your program is extremely demanding in terms of effort does not <in and of itself> mean it is a superior education. It might be, or it might not be.

Only if you only apply to one university.

I didn't disagree with you on that topic. Every test we get is knowledge application --- they expect you to know all your stuff, so they test knowledge application. Which means a lot of thinking. It can be annoying because if you cram for a test you'll definitely fail since memorization doesn't work in this place.

But if you apply to, say, four, with a .30 chance in each, your chances of getting into at least one is .76.>

Not really. I laid out the overall acceptance rate, and most of the applicant pool falls into the 15% typical applicant category.

The point was to prove the non-arbitrary admissions process.

What you said with 30% is like saying if you apply to, say, a top college (look, I said "top colleg" not "ivy league;" if Ivy League takes 30% of its students I'm happy) they pick students from a lottery box randomly so you have 30% chance of getting drawn.

Not true.

That's why I laid out the special categories, etc. BEHIND the 30% admission rate.

It's one of those tip-of-the-iceberg concepts.

<But if you apply to, say, four, with a .30 chance in each, your chances of getting into at least one is .76.>

Again, no. That's not how it works. It's like flipping a coin: each time you flip, it's 50% chance of getting head/tail for every flip you make.

BUT, the more you flip, the more likely that you're gonna get that Head side you're looking for instead of just flipping once, because the law of probability (of 50%) is against flipping 9 tails out of 10 in a row.

I apologize if I seemed unnecessarily confrontational...I was really responding like that because you referred to my original post as "whining" and "blowing smoke"

So now that we've retracted our claws, lets get back to the topic:

<The alumini/legacy does help you in admissions, but I didn't know it would help THAT much as you said>

An admissions officer at an Ivy League school once said about legacy credentials, "It can heal the sick, but it can't raise the dead"

In other words, if your grades and SAT scores are mediocre or low, the amount of money your parents donated probably won't make a difference. You still won't get in.

But if you were a 'B' student in high school with slightly above average SAT scores (but lower than what they usually accept), then the only way you WOULD get in is if you were considered an affirmative action candidate, you were a star athlete that the coaches desperately wanted to recruit, you had some other special skill or talent, OR if your parents donated a lot of $$

Need-blind just means that qualified students will not be rejected because they're poor...They'll find a financial aid package to help you pay....But having a wealthy donor parent (especially when the parent is also an alumnus) will help you get in when otherwise you would not have.

Universities are businesses after all...Where do you think most of their huge endowments come from? They rely on alumni giving, and usually the largest donors to the school are those who have had multiple generations go to that school

Dude, get "Fiske Guide to Getting Into the Right College." Seroiusly.

The colleges all want diversity, but they only got a limited space for underrepresented minorities. That includes hispanics, blacks, native americans, etc. (sorry, Asians, your super high grades and number of poeople won't cut it in this running)

So the 60% is really like

50% blacks
70% native americans
60% hispanics

(these are made-up for illustration).

Again, tip-of-the-iceberg.

The slashing-of-applicants is based on what type of students the school want. If your category is black, they pick the best black students they want for their school and slash the rest of the blacks. Then they go to whites, etc.

But the categories are really numerous because they want diversity in race, academics, background, extracurricular activity, and all those other factors.

But, like you said, <In other words, if your grades and SAT scores are mediocre or low, the amount of money your parents donated probably won't make a difference. You still won't get in.>

And you criticize Riverbeast for being confrontational. I guess being condescending is OK.

Listen, knight, I went to college, I did fine, I learned a few things, I've used them in my career, and I've done well. I'm not really interested in college admissions at the moment, except when I see mistaken comments posted about it.

Does that mean that Nakamura is the public school student who doesn't work as hard, but whines because he doesn't get invites to top level tournaments?

If that's what you meant (and I'm not sure it is), Nakamura wasn't the one whining about it...I was! ;-)

And Nakamura is starting to get invites to top-level tournaments, probably because the organizers realize that he is an elite player and elite talent, and he belongs there.

Although in my opinion it's still ridiculous he was not invited to the World Blitz this year...But I have a feeling that after his win in the blitz match with Carlsen the organizers realize it was an oversight, and hopefully he'll be in it next year

The transition for him may be difficult at first (or maybe not)....If it is, it's probably because these guys have a different level of preparation than he does (although I can't say that for sure..none of us really knows how hard Nakamura works)

(Incidentally <frogbert> you were talking about Nakamura's huge leap in rating over the past few years...That's probably due to him working harder, but I think it also coincided with him quitting school and focusing on chess full time).

But if they DO work harder than he does, maybe he'll take his lumps at first, start working as hard as they do, and then I think, with his talent, the sky's the limit

And I think his unorthodox playing style will take a lot of these guys out of their comfort zones...It seems like most of them are so used to playing each other, and almost all of them seem to play the Slav or semi-Slav!

Time to mix it up a bit....Maybe Nakamura will hit them with the Dutch Defense and his funky 'hippo' set-ups

He may have been a legacy admission, I don't know. Even if he wasn't, he's a good example of what I was talking about...Many times, the private school students don't have to work as hard

Yeah, I remember the tabloids in New York were making it front page news when he failed the bar the second time...I felt bad for him...I remember he said "Well, I'm obviously not a legal genius"

The tabloids also told a similar story to yours....On one of his first days on the job he asked one of the female secretaries for help with the copy machine or something, and they said the girl just started hyperventilating when he talked to her, and she nearly fainted.

Guess it's not easy being that pretty after all!

I saw him walking and biking around NYC several times when I lived there....He was actually a little bit shorter than I expected

<He quit that gig when his mom died>

I also heard his mother didn't want him to fly...He started doing that after she died also