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TOURNAMENT STANDINGS
Dortmund Tournament

Ruslan Ponomariov6.5/10(+4 -1 =5)[view games]
Le Quang Liem5.5/10(+2 -1 =7)[view games]
Shakhriyar Mamedyarov5/10(+3 -3 =4)[view games]
Vladimir Kramnik5/10(+2 -2 =6)[view games]
Peter Leko4/10(+1 -3 =6)[view games]
Arkadi Naiditsch4/10(+2 -4 =4)[view games]

 page 1 of 2; games 1-25 of 30  PGN Download
Game  ResultMoves Year Event/LocaleOpening
1. Naiditsch vs Mamedyarov 0-147 2010 DortmundB90 Sicilian, Najdorf
2. Kramnik vs Le Quang Liem ½-½64 2010 DortmundD18 Queen's Gambit Declined Slav, Dutch
3. Ponomariov vs Leko 1-057 2010 DortmundC45 Scotch Game
4. Ponomariov vs Kramnik 1-036 2010 DortmundE00 Queen's Pawn Game
5. Leko vs Mamedyarov ½-½50 2010 DortmundE62 King's Indian, Fianchetto
6. Le Quang Liem vs Naiditsch ½-½35 2010 DortmundD39 Queen's Gambit Declined, Ragozin, Vienna Variation
7. Naiditsch vs Ponomariov ½-½82 2010 DortmundC67 Ruy Lopez
8. Kramnik vs Leko ½-½47 2010 DortmundE06 Catalan, Closed, 5.Nf3
9. Mamedyarov vs Le Quang Liem 1-053 2010 DortmundD11 Queen's Gambit Declined Slav
10. Mamedyarov vs Kramnik ½-½31 2010 DortmundD37 Queen's Gambit Declined
11. Le Quang Liem vs Ponomariov 1-052 2010 DortmundD86 Grunfeld, Exchange
12. Naiditsch vs Leko ½-½55 2010 DortmundC78 Ruy Lopez
13. Kramnik vs Naiditsch 1-051 2010 DortmundE04 Catalan, Open, 5.Nf3
14. Ponomariov vs Mamedyarov 1-051 2010 DortmundE32 Nimzo-Indian, Classical
15. Leko vs Le Quang Liem 0-159 2010 DortmundB12 Caro-Kann Defense
16. Mamedyarov vs Naiditsch 0-136 2010 DortmundD39 Queen's Gambit Declined, Ragozin, Vienna Variation
17. Leko vs Ponomariov ½-½41 2010 DortmundE06 Catalan, Closed, 5.Nf3
18. Le Quang Liem vs Kramnik ½-½39 2010 DortmundE06 Catalan, Closed, 5.Nf3
19. Naiditsch vs Le Quang Liem ½-½35 2010 DortmundB12 Caro-Kann Defense
20. Kramnik vs Ponomariov ½-½37 2010 DortmundE17 Queen's Indian
21. Mamedyarov vs Leko 1-039 2010 DortmundA15 English
22. Le Quang Liem vs Mamedyarov ½-½52 2010 DortmundE06 Catalan, Closed, 5.Nf3
23. Leko vs Kramnik ½-½31 2010 DortmundE04 Catalan, Open, 5.Nf3
24. Ponomariov vs Naiditsch 1-046 2010 DortmundE59 Nimzo-Indian, 4.e3, Main line
25. Mamedyarov vs Ponomariov ½-½43 2010 DortmundD37 Queen's Gambit Declined
 page 1 of 2; games 1-25 of 30  PGN Download
  REFINE SEARCH:   White wins (1-0) | Black wins (0-1) | Draws (1/2-1/2)  
 

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 41 OF 42 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-29-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: Khalif and Kasim are barely in the top 50 now, right? I guess that says it all. As a chess fan, I respect the Candidates matches and a 24 game World Championship match. If the venue is to expensive to hold for 6 weeks, then they can have it at my apartment. My neighbor said I could stay over, if this happens....
Jul-29-10  yalie: <HeMateMe: Khalif and Kasim are barely in the top 50 now, right? I guess that says it all.>

1. Karpov is also not in the top 50. so?
2. If elo is most important to you why hold a championship at all?

Jul-30-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: Karpov is too old to be an active GM. Khalif and Kasim are not; they are still at prime age. But, they are way down the totem pole. Thus, one questions whether they were ever legitimate 'world champions'.

When Karpov was their age, he was ranked in the world's top 3.

Jul-30-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  dx9293: <HeMateMe> If Adams had defeated Kasimdzhanov in the 2004 FIDE World Championship final, would you have seen him as "legitimate?" Adams was around the Top 5 at that time.

What if Kramnik or Shirov had won in 1999 instead of Khalifman? Would you consider them "legitimate" World Champions?

If the answer to either or both of these questions is yes, then you are prejudicing the winners because of their world rank/Elo rating.

I rarely see people complain about Anand's win in the 2000 FIDE World Championship, because they see him as a "top player." The big complaints are about Khalifman, Kasimdzhanov and, to a lesser extent, Ponomariov. One can't have it both ways...

Jul-30-10  AuN1: <dx9293: <HeMateMe> If Adams had defeated Kasimdzhanov in the 2004 FIDE World Championship final, would you have seen him as "legitimate?" Adams was around the Top 5 at that time.

What if Kramnik or Shirov had won in 1999 instead of Khalifman? Would you consider them "legitimate" World Champions?

If the answer to either or both of these questions is yes, then you are prejudicing the winners because of their world rank/Elo rating.

I rarely see people complain about Anand's win in the 2000 FIDE World Championship, because they see him as a "top player." The big complaints are about Khalifman, Kasimdzhanov and, to a lesser extent, Ponomariov. One can't have it both ways...>

topalov won the 2005 world championship tournament, but many people, including me, do not consider him a legitimate wcc because he did not beat kramnik, who wrested the title from kasparov, in a match.

Jul-30-10  percyblakeney: <World Champion is a different concept,much harder to earn. It carries with it a concept of greatness that can't be affected by one or two games>

To reach a title match a player will have to win a minimatch knockout of the same sort that Kasim and Khalifman won, except that the field will be much more even this time. It is by no means certain that the best player is more probable to win such a knockout than he is to reach #1 on the rating list.

Reaching #1 is less affected by one or two games, and only six players have been sole first in the more than 40 years a FIDE rating list has existed. It isn't easy something that is easy to do.

Jul-30-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: <When Karpov was their age, he was ranked in the world's top 3.>

So what? When Korchnoi was Karpov's current age, he was top 5. ;)

Jul-30-10  messachess: I take it that FIDE has been casting about for the most acceptable formula related to world championship activities, and has alienated some top players. It looks like FIDE has been getting a lot of cooperation with its programs, seeming to indicate a degree of satisfaction there. So what, many top players are having fun and making money, and the fans are relatively satisfied? Is that about it? What about the fairness factor? What about the alienation? Was that merely a minor misstep on FIDE's part. Are they doing a relatively good job with the wc? What do you think?
Jul-30-10  percyblakeney: <the fans are relatively satisfied?>

I think most fans are happy if it all just ends with a match...

Jul-30-10  WiseWizard: VLADIMIR KRAMNIK World Chess Champion 2012

You heard it here first.

Sincerely, WW

Jul-30-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: <WiseWizard: VLADIMIR KRAMNIK World Chess Champion 2012 > I'll believe it but not unless I see it.

Sincerely, W/S

Jul-30-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  dx9293: <World Chess Champion 2012> Anyone but Carlsen, please.

I don't want updates on the major chess websites about Magnus waking up, Magnus when he goes to the bathroom, Magnus when he's eating lunch, etc.

Jul-30-10  laskerian: <HeMateMe>:
On the apartment proposition: That was the funniest posting I've read in a long time. How I wish having a venue were that easy. If such were the case, can we have it 50-50 (half of the match in your place while half shall be in our place), hehe? I guarantee that there we shall have all my kids rooting for Kramnik and Carlsen.Mind you, even our dog knows Kramnik.
Jul-30-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: Very nice! In my case, we wouldn't have to be flies on the wall--there really ARE flies on the wall!

Serioulsy, I think FIDE should wake up and realize that there is a physicality/sporting aspect to WC chess--24 games against the same tough opponent is a huge strain, but a worthy test. The good folks at FIDE should put down the cognac and filet mignon for a moment, and search out a medium priced hotel with a large ballroom, something afordable for 6 weeks, and just let the boys slug it out for 6 weeks, a 24 gamer!

Would Anand have tired and folded up against the younger Topalov? We shall never know...

Jul-30-10  Petrosianic: Botvinnik's record in Games 17-24 of a championship match was +5-15=25. That doesn't prove anything about how Anand would perform, but it does show that fatigue is a factor, and more for some than others.
Jul-30-10  AuN1: right before the latest wcc match started, someone made the point that the score after, i think either 12 or 16 games, was the same result in recent wcc matches as in the old ones when they played best of 24. personally, i like 24 game matches, but i can see how fide can make the argument that short matches are viable. i can't wait for the start of the candidates; less than a year away. anyone have any predictions yet for the first round? i like carlsen, topalov, kramnik, and aronian.
Jul-30-10  yalie: <percy> I agree that one can make a good case for Smyslov & Steinitz to be all time top tenners.
Jul-30-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: No, George Hamilton is the all time top tanner.
Jul-30-10  messachess: <Anyone but Carlsen> Has he played any kind of a significant match yet? I don't think so.--we don't know if he will be good at it; do we.
Jul-30-10  laskerian: <HeMateMe>:

Same here – I am in favour of a 24-game match just like in the good old days. On the premise that a shorter match gives rise to some luck (wherein the lagging player finds it real hard to recover), if a 24-game version highlights stamina and will power and in case the older player cannot cope with the former, it only means that the new lion deserves to be champ. Age is always a factor, and to be a champion, one needs to show that one overcomes this factor (a la Lasker or Korchnoi); otherwise there ought to be a changing of the guard. Overcoming this is not impossible, as what the great Botvinnik showed many times.

Just imagine a 24-game match where the no-draw-offer is in place and involving any of the Top 10 players, and for sure we will be having a chess spectacle, given the level of chess nowadays.

Jul-30-10  messachess: <the good old days> they'd try to win one game and draw 23.
Jul-30-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Kinghunt: <Just imagine a 24-game match where the no-draw-offer is in place and involving any of the Top 10 players, and for sure we will be having a chess spectacle, given the level of chess nowadays.>

I do not think matches should ban draw offers. The two players are battling for the most coveted title in the world of chess and if one player feels like surrendering a chance to win and the other feels like obliging, by all means, let them.

Jul-30-10  SugarDom: Haven't you heard of the "SugarDom Rules"?

All drawn games to be decided immediately by Armageddon (after 15 mins break). Standard win = 3 points, Armageddon win = 1 point. NO DRAWS ALLOWED.

Yes. You can even use it in a WC match. No more "I woke up 3 in the morning to see a 14-move draw. Damnnn...."

I'm turning chess into spectator sports, baby.

Jul-31-10  jussu: <SugarDom>, The only certain way to turn chess into spectator sports is to make the players throw each other with the pieces. One plan that may work is to give one minute for the entire game, but I doubt it (still looks too nerdy).
Jul-31-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eggman: <<I do not think matches should ban draw offers. The two players are battling for the most coveted title in the world of chess and if one player feels like surrendering a chance to win and the other feels like obliging, by all means, let them.>>

Apologies in advance to those who have been around here for years, and heard this before ad nauseum. But I just can't let such comments go unchallenged. So here I go sounding like a broken record again ...

The above logic appeals to us for hardly any other reason than that we chess players are used to it. If boxers or tennis players agreed to terminate a contest in media res and call it a draw it would be the sports scandal of the century. No wonder chess suffers as a spectator sport.

Without premature draws, how many games would the first Karpov-Kasparov match have lasted? Without premature draws, first-to-win six might have been viable.

The draw agreement rule is in place to allow players to avoid having to play on forever in a dead drawn position, and the rule exists for *absolutely no other reason than this*. Simply put, the spirit of the rule should be enforced: a qualified arbiter should give permission to declare a game drawn only if a dead drawn position, i.e. the type of position *for which the rule was surely intended*, has arisen.

Amen.

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