< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 102 OF 122 ·
|Jan-28-11|| ||dakgootje: Bleh, that game made a 1250 c-buck difference.. which is about 2 times my current bankroll. If only Hao could've won at some moment..|
|Jan-28-11|| ||fgh: <Lady In Black: Kramnik is becoming a grandpa.>|
Once you are born, you begin to age (and die, of course). You don't need to state the obvious, wiseacre.
Kramnik lost to Carlsen in 2008 (same tournament), but defeated him in 2010 (again, same tournament). Their head-to-head results are hardly becoming one-sided.
|Jan-28-11|| ||arnaud1959: <Eyal:...otherwise ...Nd1 just wins the e3 pawn.> Im looking at your diagram,I don't understand why. White can play e4 (with the B on c8 or a8) and if ...d4 then e5 dxe5, Ke4. The resulting position needs simply to be analysed. White may try to collect e5 and d4 or only e5, then bring the King to the kingside and give the bishop for the d pawn.|
|Jan-28-11|| ||turbo231: <dakgootje: Hao will not agree to draw until either he or Smeets drops dead from exhaustion.>|
They died from exhaustion, it's a draw.
|Jan-28-11|| ||Kinghunt: <The Rocket: <"Endgame genius..Thats it..">|
yeah pawn up and wins! he must be a genius.>
Well, honestly, yes. An extra pawn doesn't mean a won position. This endgame, despite the extra pawn, was very drawish. Try playing it out yourself against a computer. You'll find that it's extremely tricky to convert.
|Jan-28-11|| ||Eyal: <arnaud1959: <Eyal:...otherwise ...Nd1 just wins the e3 pawn.> Im looking at your diagram,I don't understand why. White can play e4 (with the B on c8 or a8) and if ...d4 then e5 dxe5, Ke4>|
Yes, I should have said either wins e3 or gets a passed pawn after e4 - but Black is definitely winning in the latter case as well. In your line there's no way White can just "collect" the d pawn after Black plays d3 and Nf2 - he would have to give up the bishop for this pawn, and then the white king can't get at both of the black pawns on the K-side - Black plays Nxh3, defending g5, and after that the win is trivial.
|Jan-28-11|| ||The Rocket: <Kinghunt:> I doubt any other grandmaster would play it any different than carlsen, in fact it would probably be a 100% replica of the last part of the endgame from black.|
It was all about how white defended, not how black did on his part.
|Jan-28-11|| ||pubaer: poor kramnik, if this is his client his business msut be doing really bad lol|
|Jan-28-11|| ||frogbert: <yeah pawn up and wins! he must be a genius.>|
the rocket, haha! please go on and show everyone how much you understood of that ending. oh my ...
|Jan-28-11|| ||The Rocket: frogbert I dont need to understand it(even though I probably would).. the position plays itself.., black cant lose it unless he gives up material in one move.|
And you can just try any path and check out if white goes wrong, just like carlsen did.
|Jan-28-11|| ||Kinghunt: <And you can just try any path and check out if white goes wrong, just like carlsen did.>|
But when white is Kramnik, you need to find a highly precise path to push him to go wrong. Like I said before, try playing it out yourself against the computer, and see how you do. CEGT is much weaker than Kramnik, so it'll be even easier for you.
|Jan-28-11|| ||nigelsnoru: Something wrong with the crosstable. L'Ami and Grischuk show as having played 12 games.|
|Jan-28-11|| ||anandrulez: Carlsen has played better endgames than this . I mean this was a good game but need to realize that Kramnik was already a pawn down out of the opening and try to salvage a draw . Its easy to mess up in such positions , Kramnik missed some ideas like Bc8 which was odd I though . I mean the idea of cutting the King from f1 and keeping a check on d5 was elementary . Magnus himself said it did require help from Kramnik so have careless defended the position at some point .|
|Jan-28-11|| ||frogbert: reassess the ending in 20 years, the rocket. although i think white could've improved his defence on a few occasions and the ending might objectively be a draw from the outset - which was why kramnik steered towards it in the first place - you're doing yourself a disservice if you go on thinking that white defended poorly and that black had no way of going wrong here.|
you think too highly of the average gm, btw - and too little of the very best. but that's your loss, not mine. :o)
|Jan-28-11|| ||crazybird: <you're doing yourself a disservice if you go on thinking that white defended poorly and that black had no way of going wrong here.>|
Well, even Magnus said that Kramnik "really played the endgame carelessly"
|Jan-28-11|| ||SetNoEscapeOn: Carlsen himself said that Kramnik conducted the endgame in very poor style. He knows better than we do.|
|Jan-28-11|| ||Jim Bartle: If that position from move 25 (after the exchange of queens) to move 80 "plays itself," I can just stop trying to learn to play endings!|
I think I'll put Hiarcs playing itself at three minutes a move, see what happens.
|Jan-28-11|| ||samikd: Anand still has a chance if he beats Giri with white pieces, because Nakamura is likely to draw against Kramnik. But in the last round Naka is still favorite to beat Wang Hao and clinch the title. Well, good for him. Good for American chess. America needed a chess hero very badly.|
|Jan-28-11|| ||anandrulez: Well Anand needs to win Giri , I think its really a tough task . Giri is a solid player and not tail ender category . I think Naka is now the front runner for the cup ! He deserves the honours too ...|
|Jan-28-11|| ||frogbert: <need to realize that Kramnik was already a pawn down out of the opening and try to salvage a draw>|
kramnik <gave> the pawn the way he did in order to make it <easier> for him to save a draw. kramnik <chose> this ending a pawn down.
oh well. people find beauty in different places. there's no doubt which decisive game today offered the most big mistakes, for one. should we similarly discredit nakamura his win, saying that he needed nepo to do several grave mistakes in order to win?
i don't think so. the problem seems to be that many don't grasp the complexity of "simple end games" with reduced material. there's a reason why stronger players score extremely well against lesser players in endings.
in the only tournament i played last year i didn't do that well - but in 9 rounds i won 3 endings that all should've been draws at some point with best defence. so personally i love that people typically don't understand end games very well. :o)
|Jan-28-11|| ||The Rocket: I know a gm around close 2500 very well and I would be quite suprised if he wouldnt play identical to carlsen in this endgame.|
Nice win of course for carsen regardless, but all this talk about his endgame skills in this particular game is nonsense.
|Jan-28-11|| ||Lady In Black: fgh, read this: KRAMNIK IS BECOMING A GRANDPA|
|Jan-28-11|| ||samikd: <anandrulez> well, everybody in this tournament is a solid player. Nobody is a slouch at this level. You still have to win, if you are aspiring to be the champion|
|Jan-28-11|| ||fisayo123: I think nowadays its easier to beat Kramnik with white than Wang Hao with black.Wang Hao actually had a very tough pairing for this tourney.Black against Kramnik,Anand,Carlsen and Aronian. But Naka is still the favorite and deserves to win for his enterprising and dynamic play.|
|Jan-28-11|| ||Lady In Black: Why are people who doesnt understand about a topic feel compelled to speak?|
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