< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 123 OF 152 ·
|May-16-11|| ||Jim Bartle: If the G's have overtaken the K's, it's good news for this guy:|
|May-16-11|| ||Eric Schiller: I expect Kasparov would say "Tourists!" but a Grischuk-Anand match might be fun, at least in the openings.|
|May-16-11|| ||MrQuinn: Ah, how wise young Carlsen was. As good as he is he understood that one bad day and you're probably gone in this silly format. Now we get a 2730 playing for the world title no matter who wins the final, while the best players sit home. This is NOT good for chess! Anand must be pinching himself...3 more years with ease! As for Gris, well, credit him with identifying and exploiting the absolute looniness of these mini-matches.|
|May-16-11|| ||crazybird: <May-16-11 Eric Schiller: I expect Kasparov would say "Tourists!" but a Grischuk-Anand match might be fun, at least in the openings.>|
Tourist (Grischuk) hasn't lost a classical game to a sitting world champion in the last 10 years. Can someone remind me of any other top player with that record?
|May-16-11|| ||blueofnoon: The problem is Grischuk's "draw all the games with white pieces" tactic is much less likely to work in a 12-game match.|
I believe the purpose of candidate tournament is to pick up the player who is supposed to give champion the toughest challenge.
Grischuk without doubt has been succeeding in defeating this objective.
|May-16-11|| ||Check It Out: Gelfand may not tire out that easy. The World Cup was a grueling schedule and he maintained his energy to the top.|
|May-16-11|| ||MrMelad: <Tourist (Grischuk) hasn't lost a classical game to a sitting world champion in the last 10 years>|
Simply not true
Anand vs Grischuk, 2007
|May-16-11|| ||kappertjes: @blueofnoon: I am quite sure he does not intend to use it as a match strategy. Grischuk made a statement about the candidates as well as a strategy with these white 'games'. I am sure somebody will be pointing towards Grischuk's 8 move draw to argue against this type of format in the future. This, I think, is Grischuk's intention as much as winning.|
|May-16-11|| ||Illogic: <MrMelad> Anand wasn't champ then. Still, it's a rather ridiculous stat, as most of those years he wasn't rated high enough to be getting regular games with any world champions.|
|May-16-11|| ||Jim Bartle: I haven't lost a game to a sitting world champion in ten years either.|
|May-16-11|| ||chancho: I think Gelfand will be looking to win a game or two in the classical phase.
I don't think he wants any part of Gris in rapid or blitz.|
|May-16-11|| ||FSR: <Jim Bartle: I haven't lost a game to a sitting world champion in ten years either.>|
Me either. We rock!
|May-16-11|| ||crazybird: <May-16-11 Jim Bartle: I haven't lost a game to a sitting world champion in ten years either.>|
Well, Grischuk has -1 over some 14 classical games against Anand/Kramnik I believe. That's not something 'tourists' have.
Anyway, Gelfand would try to steer clear of rapid/blitz against Grischuk. Latter leads the duel 9 to 1.
|May-16-11|| ||Jim Bartle: I did lose to Kramnik in a simul around 2004. But he was standing, not sitting.|
|May-16-11|| ||queenfortwopawns: Come now, <crazybird>, that's not a very clever stat and you know it. For one, Kramnik's play became very conservative once he became WC, and the same could be said of Anand as well, to a certain extent. Grischuk is a good player and I doubt people genuinely dislike him, but there's no way he is a better breed than Vlad and Levon. Good on him for employing a clever strategy and outwitting his opponents, thanks due in some part to lousy play by them as well. If I were Kramnik, I would've made him play as white much longer even in a dead drawn position. Frustration with your opponent can often lead to mistakes.|
|May-16-11|| ||Ezzy: <crazybird: Anyway, Gelfand would try to steer clear of rapid/blitz against Grischuk.>|
Yes, perhaps so, BUT Gelfand was inspired at last years World Blitz Championship, finishing joint 4th. So he can have his moments.
|May-16-11|| ||Maatalkko: Kasparov decided to strategically draw every game his first time around until Karpov's amphetamines caught up to him. I don't see how Grischuk's strategy is any different. |
Grischuk is one of the top talents in the world. We've never really seen him devote himself 100%. Don't you realize that Kramnik or other very formidible Russians are probably going to help him prepare for 2012?
I for one am happy that a very talented player is getting a chance to play and a reason to be motivated. Would you rather see Kramnik's Petrov/Berlin again? Or watch Topalov book up and choke for a third time? (Not that these are guaranteed results. Upsets happen.)
This was supposed to be Aronian's moment, but he failed. Grischuk beat Aronian fair and square. Aronian's game 1 of rapid was lazily played and frankly pretty horrible. It reminds me of games I've lost being passive against an f-pawn in the English. Grischuk went on the attack and won. Then Aronian bounced back, but Grischuk righted himself and won a very good game. Aronian was the one who didn't bring the fight to it played a bad, lazy game. You can't blame Grischuk for that.
Grischuk's certainly more favored than Euwe was. In 1963, I bet some people were saying "Seriously? Petrosian?" And who in their right mind expected Kramnik to beat the 2850 rated Garry Kasparov? (Or expected Shirov to beat Kramnik, ahem?)
I find it incredibly arrogant that a bunch of chess fans think their preconceptions about the players should trump the results of the matches.
(BTW I'm not defending Gelfand as much because I don't like his occasionally brilliant but usually stale and over-prepped style of chess. But similar arguments apply.)
|May-16-11|| ||Maatalkko: And people bringing up Grischuk's hygiene and smoking habits? How puerile is that? Yeah he has a beard, but I doubt his wife puts up with much B.O., and everybody smokes. It's Russia. Why don't we also criticize, Lasker, Tal, Korchnoi, and Kramnik? |
(Oh wait, a couple years ago people were criticizing Kramnik.)
|May-16-11|| ||Maatalkko: Calling Gelfand a tourist is even more ridiculous I suppose. He's won no less than 8 knockout matches to get here. What's he supposed to do, coax Kasparov out of retirement and score a win to prove he can play?|
|May-16-11|| ||Billy Vaughan: <Tourist (Grischuk) hasn't lost a classical game to a sitting world champion in the last 10 years. Can someone remind me of any other top player with that record?>|
|May-16-11|| ||Maatalkko: Maybe I'm too heated today. I just think it's unfair to criticize players for winning, or to say that the result is invalid because it doesn't meet our preconceptions. If these guys are really so weak, why was nobody mocking them before they started playing?|
|May-16-11|| ||MrQuinn: Maatalkko, enough with the fanboy stuff. Gris is a strong GM who exploited a weak qualifier. He found the flaw in the system and got through. He made the most of the system. No one in their right mind considers him legit WC material. The very brevity of the whole process served his purposes. And Gelfand's too. Qualifying on Rapid and Blitz doesn't have much to do with being a classical contender. At least Gelfand won a classical game!|
|May-16-11|| ||Peligroso Patzer: <messachess: ***
Back in the day (way back), when [Gelfand] and Ivanchuk were coming up, both were considered the next big thing, expected to one day vie for the championship. That was a long time ago, and now, here he is.>
Gelfand never quite got his shot at the title in his youth, but he was in the thick of the world championship hunt a decade and a half ago. In 1994, he won an 8-game candidates match against Kramnik (+2 -1 =5).
|May-16-11|| ||unferth: <crazybird: Grischuk hasn't lost a classical game to a sitting world champion in the last 10 years.>|
in a grand total of eight games prior to the 2011 farce ... = 3 with anand, = 5 with kramnik. not an especially convincing sample size.
|May-16-11|| ||Peligroso Patzer: <MrMelad: <Tourist (Grischuk) hasn't lost a classical game to a sitting world champion in the last 10 years> |
Simply not true
Anand vs Grischuk, 2007;
For the record, the game you cite was played in the event that established Anand’s claim to be FIDE World Chess Champion. During that tournament, Anand was not the “sitting world champion”.
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