< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 10 OF 16 ·
|Jun-04-11|| ||amadeus: Shirov 3.5-2.5, folks. trust me on this.|
|Jun-04-11|| ||Chessinfinite: <unny thing is it is more likely than not for Aronian go do to Anand what he is doing to Shirov.
There is something embarrassing and nauseating about deliberately put together mismatches.>|
I think this is ridiculous, Aronian doing something like that to Anand? , please the guy needs to be able to meet him first.
I don't buy this opinion of Aronian owning Anand just because he won last few games, That too because of blunders from Anand. Aronian is one of the few players whose style Anand is YET to understand fully,... Keep in mind, playing casual games in tournaments or rapids don' t give a real picture of the player's ability. This is not to deny that Aronian is a great player himself, but Anand will thrash him in a one-one match. In all serious encounters, Aronian will find it harder to beat Anand.
Lets see, their games played in the most important of Chess events, The World Championships ? Anand beats Aronian 1.5- 0.5 in Mexico 2007, and What a game that was. It was a masterpice put together by Anand at a time when it mattered the most.
|Jun-04-11|| ||LucB: <Ohio Chess Fan>
Hmmm... make that EXTRA elementary; I'll have to YouTube the thing to remember the melody!..
|Jun-05-11|| ||OhioChessFan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pcr...|
|Jun-05-11|| ||ahmadov: Bravo Anand! You are the true champion!|
|Jun-05-11|| ||Ishaan: I wonder if Aronian is to Anand what Kramnik was to Kasparov!|
Doesn't mean Anand is inferior to Aronian because Kasparov will never be considered inferior to Kramnik.
|Jun-05-11|| ||Sokrates: On who beats who. It is quite well-known that all players, even world champions have Angstgegner. This, btw, is not particular for the game of chess. We saw Lasker having a very tough match with Schlechter, who, in chess history, only a made a name for himself in that match (alas, he died of poverty, but that's another story). Spassky had a very bad score against Karpov, although no-one would argue that Spassky was a worthy champ.|
It seems that Aronian has been quite successful against Anand, but I am with those who emphasize that one shouldn't make too much of it. In a serious match between those two, I think Anand would come out victorious, even if it won't be easy at all. In beating such different players as Kramnik and Topalov Anand has shown great versatility and flexibility in his play.
On the Kramnik-Kasparov issue I think it came as a surprise for many of us in the chess community that Kasparov couldn't create a single crack in Kramnik's wall. In spite of the great accomplishment of defeating the celestial player Kasparov, I have a hard time placing Kramnik on level with Fischer, Karpov and Kasparov. Great player, yes, but while profitting fully of being an Angstgegner to Kasparov, he never convinced as a number 1 during his (much too long) reign.
|Jun-05-11|| ||shach matov: Anand/Aronian and Kasparov/Kramnik comparison is not correct at all. in fact in tournament games Kasparov leads Kramnik by one classical game +4-3 (+1) and as far as I know +2 in rapid/blitz. one match is subject to so many random and accidental influences that it's simply not serious to use it as evidence that kramnik was kasparov's nemesis. at most one can say that their record is basically even. |
on the other hand, Aronian leads Anand by +5-1 which is very impressive indeed. At this point Aronian is Anand's archival since the score is very lopsided in the former's favor. it's not very clear whether this is psychological or perhaps Aronian's stile is problematic for Anand. we still have not seen any evidence that the latter has been able to overcome his problems regarding the former.
|Jun-05-11|| ||Akavall: Aronian beats Anand 5-1 in classical games (correct me if I am wrong), quite significant. |
This is interesting because Anand is so universal and pragmatic; it seems that he would've have an angstgegner. I wonder what it is about Aronian's play that makes him angstgegner for Anand.
|Jun-05-11|| ||sevenseaman: <Sokrates> How do you pronounce this monster 'angstgegner'?|
|Jun-05-11|| ||Mr. Bojangles: I have no doubt that Aronian will put the muscle on Anand in rapids in much the same way that Anand is doing to Shirov.|
|Jun-05-11|| ||Hovik2009: <but Anand will thrash him in a one-one match. In all serious encounters, Aronian will find it harder to beat Anand.>|
It is always much easier said than done!
<I wonder what it is about Aronian's play that makes him angstgegner for Anand.>
Anand and Aronian have very similar styles(that could be a reason for so radical overall outcome) and almost same strength(I consider Anand a bit stronger though), so it must be psychological stress and pressure from past unfortunant encounters that plays the major role for Anand's uncomfortable play against Aronian, and in the end for some strange reason he is always sucker for Lev's cheap tricks!
|Jun-05-11|| ||Hovik2009: "Angstgegner"
I couldn't find this word in my Webster's Collegiate, but it must be compund of "angst" Germanic word meaning anxiety and dread (Latin angustus=narrow, akin to English anguish and anger) plus -gegner(from -gegn) which must be Germanic meaning counter or against.
please correct me if I am wrong
|Jun-05-11|| ||Nietzowitsch: <sevenseaman> http://www.dict.cc/?s=Angstgegner|
|Jun-05-11|| ||Mr. Bojangles: <Anand and Aronian have very similar styles(that could be a reason for so radical overall outcome) and almost same strength(I consider Anand a bit stronger though), so it must be psychological stress and pressure from past unfortunant encounters that plays the major role for Anand's uncomfortable play against Aronian, and in the end for some strange reason he is always sucker for Lev's cheap tricks!>|
Not so sure about similar styles but I agree with the overall gist of your take here. I don't believe Aronian is stronger than Anand at all.
However, I think Aronian has overtaken Anand in rapids.
|Jun-05-11|| ||LucB: Thanks <Ohio Chess Fan>!! Hahaha! Even funnier with the melody!|
Well, this song should stay in my head all day!
|Jun-05-11|| ||Aspat: <I have no doubt that Aronian will put the muscle on Anand in rapids in much the same way that Anand is doing to Shirov.> Difficult to agree. Aronian has not shown the superiority over Anand in rapids as it has been shown by Anand over Shirov.|
|Jun-05-11|| ||vraja: This game for sure tests the defense of Anand as Shirov is pointing his guns at Anand's kingside. |
Well! Anand is the best player in defense. It is an interesting tussle.
chessok.com has the link for the games.
|Jun-05-11|| ||LucB: It's over: 0-1|
|Jun-05-11|| ||hedgeh0g: In a way, I think this match has not only highlighted how much stronger Anand is than Shirov, but why 1.e4 has gone a bit out of fashion at the elite level.|
|Jun-05-11|| ||IRONCASTLEVINAY: ITS DRAW|
|Jun-05-11|| ||unununium: In fact after Radjabov wins with black against 1.d4 and after Anand wins against 1.e4, white is running out of first moves!|
|Jun-05-11|| ||BadKnight: d3-d4 is on the cards :D|
|Jun-05-11|| ||Akavall: <hedgeh0g> The Caro-Kann?|
|Jun-05-11|| ||hedgeh0g: <Akavall> My point was that Black seems to have so many tough defenses to 1.e4: the Berlin, Caro-Kann and Petrov, for example. A lot of players are also wary of the counterchances offered by the Sicilian, which may be why players on the very top level have turned towards 1.d4 in search of an opening advantage.|
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