< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 87 OF 95 ·
|Sep-19-11|| ||HSOL: Boratco: "Yeah, including a tournament where the closest rival was merely a 2500 player. I can't find that link now but is how you can amass points quickly to stardom."|
But a similar argument, having to play lower-rated players (because he wasn't invited to top-level tournaments) so being forced to win pretty much every game, was the explanation given by someone in this thread why So wasn't rated higher.
|Sep-19-11|| ||Bureaucrat: Wesley So was knocked out of this tournament ages ago. The remaining matches are between stronger and more interesting players, such as Ivanchuk. As to why Mr So is not rated higher, that's a no-brainer. It's because he doesn't have what it takes, but who cares anyway? There are dozens of players in a similar situation -- strong grandmasters who don't have the potential to reach the very top.|
|Sep-19-11|| ||frogbert: < if you go with frogberts theory that 40-50 points difference does not make any difference >|
yeah, they're good at taking things out of context.
assuming that i'm an idiot and would've claimed the above regardless of context, here's the inductive proof - assuming that (theorem 1:) 40-50 rating points make no difference whatsoever - that i'm as strong as a 2800-player (applying the logic behind the quote above):
1) my strength estimate is 2050 fide
2) applying theorem 1 this means i'm as strong as a 2100 player
3) hence my actual strength is better represented by the number 2100
4) my actual strength estimate is 2100 fide
5) applying theorem 1 again, this means i'm as strong as a 2150 player
6) hence my actual strength is better represented by the number 2150
7) my actual strength estimate is 2150 fide
conclusion: i'm arbitrarily strong because my strength estimate = my rating = can always be increased by another 50 points because 50 points make no difference whatsoever.
logic courtesy of anyone who thinks that a 2650-player <generally> is as strong as a 2700-player, because "frogbert claims that 40-50 points make no difference" (implicitly: regardless of context).
i must be really, really dumb ...
|Sep-19-11|| ||Meatwad: It's too early to tell right now, but at the moment it's hard to distinguish So's career from, say, Andre Volokitin's at his age. Both fantastically talented, but Andrei seemed to reach his limits for one reason or another and never quite cracked the very top. Will So do the same? Time will tell. Anyways, wasn't he knocked out of this like eight rounds ago?|
|Sep-19-11|| ||Boratco: <logic courtesy of anyone who thinks that a 2650-player <generally> is as strong as a 2700-player, because "frogbert claims that 40-50 points make no difference" (implicitly: regardless of context).|
i must be really, really dumb ...>
Yeah, I must be really really dumb not to understand what you said, and now claim you didn't. You must have said it a million times (exagerated a bit) in Magnus Carlsen page and here. Oh well, there we go again, flip flopping all the time. Sometimes we do fail to remember things we said, I would be grateful when medical tech finds a cure to Alheismerz (wrong speling) disease.
I think the only thing that you haven't repeated was your proposal for the qualifiers which went from here to there within 2 months.
Okay, Mr. Frogbert, give them numbers and I almost forget, give them green cards, that is if you remember.
|Sep-19-11|| ||arkansaw: Shipov's in the house again, isn't that lovely?
PS: please put the so..so guy to rest already, enough is enough :(
|Sep-19-11|| ||Boratco: blame it on the numbers. saw..saw:(|
|Sep-19-11|| ||laskerian: <Boratco>: I also think my fact are wrong...and inaccurate, I can't remember all on top of my head but it's more like it. Bu-So I think is 1-1, So-Ivanchuk 1.5-.5 same with Kamsky and could have easily been a 2-0 if Gm Wesley So isn't a nice guy.:D)|
Wesley So is a very good chess player, but please do not make it look like just because he beat Ivanchuk and Kamsky in a similar KO tournament before, he is already better than the 2. Only 2 battles do not make a war. I am pretty sure that in a long match,say at least 12 games, sooner or later it will become clear that Ivanchuk and Kamsky were simply off-axis at that time. People have down periods, and Wesley caught the two in theirs.
For all your fanaticism, you already seem to think that 2 games make a database. If that is valid, we might as well decide the world championship by a single "winner-takes-all-the-marbles" game. Speaking of overhead costs, I think a lot of sponsors will like that idea.
I am not sure, but was it also you (or someone else) who remarked that Wesley is at par with Gelfand (just because he drew the 2 games they played)? Even a high school student who conducts experiments in his science class knows that after 2 trials, he cannot yet make a valid conclusion.
I want to emphasize that Wesley has the potential to make it great someday, but at this point, even Wesley himself will probably admit that Kamsky, Gelfand and Ivanchuk are simply better players than him. Well, as far as I remember, even Kosteniuk managed to beat Carlsen in a blitz game, but does that make her the better player? Happy, yes...but better? In a distorted world, maybe.
|Sep-19-11|| ||Blunderdome: frogbert's bringing the Sorites paradox into this ;)|
|Sep-19-11|| ||putot: Peter Svidler wins !
|Sep-19-11|| ||Billy Vaughan: Congrats to Svidler and Ivanchuk! :)|
|Sep-19-11|| ||bigatin: <For all your fanaticism, you already seem to think that 2 games make a database. If that is valid, we might as well decide the world championship by a single "winner-takes-all-the-marbles" game. Speaking of overhead costs, I think a lot of sponsors will like that idea.>|
You're right...maybe Wes is better...it's a pity we would never know at his point in time...The organizers would rather invite Gelfand and all other guys with the bloated elo's ...Will never give Wes a chance...
But to "inferno" with them organizers.
Wes has made himself participant to the coming World Blitz Championship this November.
Along with the other 5 qualifiers in the Aeroflot blitz, they take their podium rightfully deserved...
While the rest of the combatants from the Tal Memorial are again chosen from them bloated <bureaucrat> puffer fishhttp://www.google.com.ph/search?tbm... not need to qualify the hard way...their bloated elos saved them the day.
|Sep-19-11|| ||Boratco: Congrats to Peter Svidler for the WIN!!!
<laskerian:> Sorry? When did I say Gm Wesley So is better than Ivanchuk and Kamsky? As far as I can remember, I am just pointing out the he is playing way above his elo rating by holding his ground against the elite. Never that I said he is better than anyone except his current rating.
I think you need to read the whole scenario to understand which way I am coming from instead of only part of the exchanges.
<Ivanchuk and Kamsky were simply off-axis at that time.> Only them can say if they are off axis or not, and if they know for sure they are off axis like you said, they should have stayed home. Why even bother going to the tournament.
|Sep-19-11|| ||Billy Vaughan: Oh my goodness, hearing the commentators sing "Piano Man" made my day :)|
|Sep-19-11|| ||bigatin: so chuck advances...hopes he becomes the next contender...Bruce would be a tough nut to crack:|
|Sep-19-11|| ||Boratco: <Blunderdome: frogbert's bringing the Sorites paradox into this ;)>|
He surely did this time but no other times.:o)
|Sep-19-11|| ||Ezzy: Great year for Svidler. Russian Champion, and World Cup Champion, and 1/2pt away from becoming joint European champion. Not a bad CV for the year.|
Last years winner (Gelfand) went on to win the candidates, and earns a pop at the title next year. Could Svidler do the same?
|Sep-19-11|| ||HSOL: Given So's ELO rating has been pretty much been the same for the last two years, surely overall he's NOT playing better than his ELO, but playing just about as good as his ELO indicates he should?|
Players going through vast improvement quickly might be underrated, but So has remained at pretty much the same level for 2 years and about 200 games. I would say that's indicative he's not rated far from his "true" rating.
If So performs better than his rating against 2700+ and about zero movement in rating overall, it means he performs worse than expected against another rating group, so the same argument can be used to say he's overrated.
|Sep-19-11|| ||laskerian: Congratulations to Vassily Ivanchuk (it must have felt so good to win against an old tormentor and qualify for the Candidates at the same time)...|
|Sep-19-11|| ||Kanatahodets: <There are dozens of players in a similar situation -- strong grandmasters who don't have the potential to reach the very top.>
Wesley So is young and he has potentials to reach the very top. In the end; it took ages for Fischer to become the best. On the other hand I am pretty sure that Svidler, Ivanchuck, Pono and Gris will never reach the very top. So, chances for Wesley are at least non-zero For these four very nice and super strong guys chnaces sum up to epsilon which can be made arbitrarily small. This doesnt mean anything offensive. P.S. The very top means WC and/or top rated stability.|
|Sep-19-11|| ||Strongest Force: PS has a very nice style and if he is ready to fight I think he can be the number one player in the world.|
|Sep-19-11|| ||Kinghunt: Interesting to note that Grischuk, despite finishing second, actually <lost> rating points at the World Cup.|
|Sep-19-11|| ||yalie: all in all a great event. good fighting chess with a deserving winner and deserving candidates.|
|Sep-19-11|| ||coolchess1: Congrats to Peter for a magnificent victory. I would like to see a Svidler-Anand WCC match in 2014.|
|Sep-19-11|| ||KKDEREK: "Real Deal"..ehehehehe|
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