< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 5 OF 11 ·
|Nov-18-11|| ||Domdaniel: <Octavia> -- < rd 4: draw>
Thank you. That had been vaguely bothering me for several hours, as I watched the latter part live, but not right to the end. When I went back to check it, the game had vanished from CG's radar.|
|Nov-18-11|| ||visayanbraindoctor: <Petrosianic: True, Topalov wasn't a KO Champion, but he wasn't an Undisputed Champion either. He's simply one of the many people who held the disputed FIDE title. His record in matches for the undisputed title is the same as Tchigorin, and Bogolubov; one of those rare few who failed to win the title in multiple attempts.>|
From what I could gather (I'm not a chess historian though) Bogolyubov actually was the first FIDE champion, winning that acclaim back in 1928 after beating Euwe in a FIDE sponsored match. However, given FIDE's situation as a newly formed organization and the dominance of the two top players of the day, FIDE never proclaimed Bogo as a 'FIDE World Champion'. No one would take such a proclamation seriously with AAA and Capa around.
FIDE proclaiming Khalifman as World Champion in 1999 ran into this same problem. To ask a rhetorical question, who would believe that Khalifman was the real world champion when Kasparov was still reigning as the undefeated classical champion? Khalifman, who by all accounts is a humble person, never seemed to have regarded himself as a world champion at par with Kasparov.
|Nov-18-11|| ||Petrosianic: Yes, as far as I know, that's true. Bogo was FIDE Champion, but they never claimed it was a world championship. (They were probably just angling to pick the top contender.) And I've never heard how they picked Bogo and Euwe to play the match.|
I think FIDE hoped people would accept the Las egas winner as world champion, just because the world organization said so. (I imagine they hoped for a stronger winner than Khalifman, but that's conjecture).
I don't know anything about Khalifman's personality, but he does have a website at:
the masthead of which describes him as "14th World Champion" without any kind of qualification, so I imagine he does see himself on a par with Kasparov. Nobody else does. In most of these discussions, people consider Kramnik the 14th champion and Anand the 15th, with the FIDE Champions usually being forgotten entirely.
|Nov-18-11|| ||HeMateMe: These are the same people that argue vehemently that black eyed peas are really beans.|
|Nov-19-11|| ||Beholder: <Domdaniel>, <acirce>, <alexmagnus>, et al.:|
People, I was only talking about English spelling of Cyrillic names, nothing more, nothing less.
I didn't mention that because we're posting in English here for chrissakes, so I thought it's obvious.
Other languages may of course use different transliteration rules.
Once again, the correct English spelling of ×èãîðèí (here for those who has it coming out as garbage: http://tinyurl.com/83y56ds) is Chigorin, while anything starting with T is wrong -- IN ENGLISH. Doh.
This really is very simple. No need to get in a twist over this. Also, specifically for <Domdaniel> -- Putin does NOT come into this, anywhere. Sorry!
|Nov-19-11|| ||brankat: Did they play game 4, and, if so, what was the score? Thank You.|
|Nov-19-11|| ||Beholder: <brankat: Did they play game 4, and, if so, what was the score? Thank You.>|
They did, it was drawn.
2.5 : 1.5 now, Yifan leads.
|Nov-19-11|| ||visayanbraindoctor: <bronkenstein> Regarding good Chinese female chess players, when I checked where they come from, it seems that most of them come from a few provinces in north-east China.|
Hou, Ruan Lufei, and Shen Yang all seem to be from Jiangsu. Zhao Xue is from Shandong.
|Nov-19-11|| ||brankat: Thank You <Beholder>.|
|Nov-19-11|| ||firebyrd: Re: <Tchigorin>, it would be better to say that it is non-standard, rather than wrong. At least none of the Russian-English transliteration standards mentioned on the wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani... uses 'tch' - in these 'Ч' is transliterated with either 'č' or 'ch'. |
However 'tch' is used often enough that the wiki page for Chigorin starts:
<Mikhail Ivanovich Chigorin also (Tchigorin; Russian: Михаил Чигорин) >, and if you search for 'Tchigorin' you are redirected to this page.
For a name like 'Tchaikovsky' I cannot even remember ever having seen it written without the 'T'.
|Nov-19-11|| ||Domdaniel: <Beholder> I'm pleased that we can almost agree. But it's not a given that Cyrillic/English transliteration is the only issue, especially in the names of players from an earlier era. For those Russians who moved west after the October revolution, the 'standard' transliteration of the name often depends on which country they moved to. So Alekhine is a French spelling, Nimzowitsch is German (but works in Danish), Bogoljubow is German (and Bogolyubov is a good English alternative).|
Thanks to some of these transliterations, English speakers sometimes mispronounce the names. 'Alek Hyne' for Alekhine makes me wince.
But now that you mention it, the 'garbage' characters were my computer's fault, not yours.
|Nov-19-11|| ||bronkenstein: <visayanbraindoctor: <bronkenstein> Regarding good Chinese female chess players, when I checked where they come from, it seems that most of them come from a few provinces in north-east China.|
Hou, Ruan Lufei, and Shen Yang all seem to be from Jiangsu. Zhao Xue is from Shandong.> That seems to be the (relatively) richer part of China , nothing unusual. AFAIK Vishy is from wealthy family , dunno about Humpu.
Too much opportunities distract (western countries) from 100% dedication , while none of it (lessay Africa , South America) won`t do much as well. China might be the `lucky mixture` (speaking of female chess that is) , relatively poor rising nation , with it`s upper classes having big enough pool of talents to produce the highest quality in sport characterised by low-to-none investments required .
PS just my speculation , and since I am pretty much clueless about the state and development of chess in China , I surely won`t insist on it.
|Nov-19-11|| ||brankat: Is the current match really lacking so much, that the only thing to talk about (on this page) is Tchaikovsky and Mikhail Ivanovich? :-)|
|Nov-19-11|| ||nimh: <Incidentally, I'm sure <nimh>'s Estonian spellings are correct -- but the 2nd letter in Tðigorin looks like an Icelandic 'dh' or voiced 'th'.>|
Thar's exactly what I see when I select Western European encoding.
It's actually S with caron: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0
|Nov-19-11|| ||alexmagnus: <Khalifman, who by all accounts is a humble person, never seemed to have regarded himself as a world champion at par with Kasparov.>|
Well, on Russian forums I occasionally visit Khalifman doesn't protest against being called a (former) world champion.
|Nov-19-11|| ||alexmagnus: As for <at par with Kasparov>: to be world champion, you don't have to be at par or better than anyone. All you have to do is to win what is called a world championship.|
Now, imagine Anand and Gelfand continue playing bad tournaments till their match, sliding further down the rating list. Imagine it ending up being a match of #10 vs #50. Then we will have a world champion (whoever wins it), an undisputed one even, yet he will be clearly not the best player.
|Nov-19-11|| ||Petrosianic: That's not clear to me. How many times does it have to be restated that the rating system is not a measure of strength, only of recent performance? Nobody ever disputes that fact, they only fail to hear it. But that doesn't make it go away.|
|Nov-19-11|| ||alexmagnus: <Petrosianic>: It will measure strength if the negative series continues after the match though. That is, the champion will be on a steady decline yet he will still remain champion because his challenger was on a decline too.|
|Nov-19-11|| ||Aljechintje: <Domdaniel: <alexmagnus> is right. In English, initial 'ch' has at least two pronunciations, as in the words 'champion' and 'chiffon'. In French, 'ch' tends to use the latter 'soft' pronunciation, more often rendered 'sh' in English.> There are also at least two other ways of pronouncing <ch> in English, first words of Greek origin:chaos, Christmas, chameleon, etc., and of Yiddish/Hebrew origin: chutzpah, Chanukah, lechaim, etc.|
|Nov-19-11|| ||claynic9: ...so just curious, what is the correct pronunciation of Alekhine? Euwe?|
|Nov-20-11|| ||FSR: I say Al-yek-in, but I think Al-yok-in may be the correct Russian pronunciation. I say air-vuh for the other guy.|
|Nov-20-11|| ||brankat: <FSR> Actually it is: "Al-yeh-in", where an <h> in <yeh> is NOT a silent one.|
|Nov-20-11|| ||Atking: <claynic9> For the first Alekhine himself asked to be prononced "al-yekh-een" which seems not the usual way to read it in Russian. For the second "erwe" looks usual. Maybe some Dutch kibitzers will confirm.|
|Nov-20-11|| ||panzerkampf: The interesting thing, in french, it is tch, in german it is tsch, in turkish it is only ç. so Çigorin makes all the work.|
|Nov-20-11|| ||HeMateMe: At a chess club, a Russian guy told me it's A-LEEK-an, the emphasis on the middle part.|
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