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|Nov-26-11|| ||Penguincw: Wow. When did this happen?|
|Nov-26-11|| ||whiteshark: 19-23 November 2011, Tilburg, The Netherlands
|Nov-26-11|| ||Penguincw: < whiteshark: 19-23 November 2011, Tilburg, The Netherlands >|
Wow. I wished I figured that out on the homepage. Thanks for a link once again.
|Nov-26-11|| ||Penguincw: < Woodpusher (Computer) 0/8 (+0 -8 =0) >|
Not a good performance.
|Nov-26-11|| ||HeMateMe: He got his Woodie handed to him...|
|Nov-26-11|| ||Bdellovibrio: "By a unanimous 5-0 decision of executive members of the ICGA we find ourselves in agreement with the verdict of the Secretariat’s report. We are convinced that the evidence against Vasik Rajlich is both overwhelming in its volume and beyond reasonable question in its nature. Vasik Rajlich is guilty of plagiarizing the programs Crafty and Fruit, and has violated the ICGA’s tournament rules with respect to the World Computer Chess Championships in the years 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010." |
~ David Levy, president of the International Computer Games Association
|Nov-27-11|| ||al wazir: The decision to disqualify Rybka is a gross miscarriage of justice. It is a fundamental tenet of legal theory that a judicial process that excludes individuals of the same category as the accused is unfair. Rybka should have been judged by a panel of its peers: other programs.|
More seriously, in all branches of technology there is a fine line between building on prior art and outright plagiarism, and in software design that line is often invisible.
|Nov-27-11|| ||HeMateMe: Are they claiming that Rybka is really a hybrid of previous software programs, that the Rybka product is theft of intellectual property?|
|Nov-27-11|| ||sofouuk: once again an impressive number of decisive games. i say we ban humans from next year's tal memorial and ask the machines to pay homage instead|
|Nov-27-11|| ||piteira8: This whole thing smells of a witch hunt. Rybka should be allowed to compete. The lifetime ban reeks of cowardice. Banning rybka is like banning apple.com products because they assemble different parts into a better whole. No one should buy the "verdict" of the ICGA until crafty and fruit (or Mr. David Levy) manage to defeat rybka. I do not think that crafty, fruit, or levy, whether acting singly or jointly, can defeat rybka, let alone prove that rybka is a copy of them. Shame, shame, shame.|
|Nov-27-11|| ||zluria: Why aren't the strongest programs playing? Where are Houdini, Stockfish and Rybka? This is pathetic. It's like one of those FIDE WCCs where the winner is Khalifman.|
|Nov-27-11|| ||PawnCouple: Very well said zluria, even fritz isn't there. This goes to show that there are real issues to be addressed. Until then this type of tourny makes no sense at all|
|Nov-27-11|| ||Catholic Bishop: The better the Programs play, the more reason to turn to Go where the best humans are still around 7 stones stronger than the best programs. On top of that, no draws period with most games lasting a good 150-200 moves.|
|Nov-27-11|| ||HeMateMe: Aren't these the best programs of five years ago? Where are the new heavies like Houdini?|
|Nov-27-11|| ||virginmind: if i am not wrong, fritz hasnt participated in any of this type of tournaments.|
anyway, what is a weakie like <woodpusher> doing here? or was it something like an open tournament?
|Nov-27-11|| ||Eric Farley: I agree that khalifman as the World Champion is a big joke. But then we have Anand! A guy who resigns at move SIX in a Petroff, falling for a beginner's trap, and who also couldn't win a single game in the Tal Memorial. I think this is the first time a world champion can't win a single game in a competition. Anyway for this whole mess in the chess world we can blame kasparov. If he hadn't broken away from Fide, this chaos wouldn't have happened. As to computers, maybe we should scale back their importance. They do their harm too. For one thing, they're responsible for the appearance of those mediocre my-Fritz-said-so chess "authors," who do nothing but vomit on the page what their program spewed out. They also are responsible for the demise of correspondence chess, because what's the use of you and your opponent computer-checking every move you make before you send the answer? Is this chess? Computers are also responsible for the end of adjournments. Now all games are hastened to a finish, causing the appearance of many blunders. Kasparov, a notorious endgame blunderer, would have his reputation as a great player tarnished. Furthermore, if a computer tells me that I'm winning by 1.0045 and the rest is a matter of technique, what good will it do?|
|Nov-27-11|| ||kingscrusher: Why no Houdini in this one?!
A lot of politics now in the Computer chess world ...
|Nov-27-11|| ||arnaud1959: HIARCS and Shredder are the most human computers. They have 5 draws each :)|
|Nov-27-11|| ||lopium: Indeed Houdini's missing. Pointless championship.|
|Nov-27-11|| ||jamesmaskell: <Eric Farley> In all fairness to Anand, he had his reasons for not pushing it.|
|Nov-27-11|| ||supertimchan: This world title is meaningless. It's like a 1800 rated players winning against a 1400 rated for the world chess title because Anand and Carlsen are not allowed to participate. In 2011 standards, Junior is not just weak but very amazing stupid.|
|Nov-27-11|| ||The Rocket: ><kingscrusher:> an engine can compete if its original. |
People claim that houdini is NOT original(which they often do in arguments with the houdini author on some sites!). Early versions matched Ivanhoe about 99% of the time or so they say. and Ivanhoe is open source engine(believed to be a rybka clone, which would make it a strelka clone , which would make it a fruit clone if the rybka allegations where correct:). Also houdini does not understand kings indian openings as white and is slow to understand blacks attack(the same problem as early stockfish versions!).
This is like the rybka-fruit controversy and you cannot clone and tweak an engine and then play a tournament. its disrespectful for the hardwork for those creating the engines themself.
The material value on houdini has clearly been changed(How much it likes each piece in combination with another) and tactics have been improved(search, knowledge) making it in practice a different engine from stockfish and ippolit series in many positions. But it remains the same origin problem as rybka-fruit.
If these reports are indeed true then Houdini would be disqualifed anyway had it been investigated.
I am not saying that Houdini is an improved clone(have not investigated this myself) just reporting what people say so dont sue me:)
|Nov-27-11|| ||kingscrusher: <The Rocket> Yes, I guess. Woodpusher in this tournament is certainly original - it seems to be have been programmed with a social King, wanting to come out and meet the opponent's pieces for a chat.|
BTW, I think all engines are not really original at all - based on Alpha-beta pruning mostly aren't they!?
Here is an article from my old Barnet site, which i think is still valid for how they all generally "think" :
|Nov-27-11|| ||kingscrusher: Sorry I can't resist :
In the future... Rybka and Houdini have a chat:
|Nov-27-11|| ||The Rocket: the term original engine is perhaps a bit ambiguous yes|
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