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MATCH STANDINGS
Kramnik - Aronian Match

Levon Aronian3/6(+1 -1 =4)[view games]
Vladimir Kramnik3/6(+1 -1 =4)[view games]

 page 1 of 1; 6 games  PGN Download 
Game  ResultMoves Year Event/LocaleOpening
1. Kramnik vs Aronian 0-141 2012 Kramnik - AronianD43 Queen's Gambit Declined Semi-Slav
2. Aronian vs Kramnik ½-½37 2012 Kramnik - AronianC67 Ruy Lopez
3. Kramnik vs Aronian 1-042 2012 Kramnik - AronianC47 Four Knights
4. Aronian vs Kramnik ½-½25 2012 Kramnik - AronianC67 Ruy Lopez
5. Kramnik vs Aronian ½-½43 2012 Kramnik - AronianD43 Queen's Gambit Declined Semi-Slav
6. Aronian vs Kramnik ½-½43 2012 Kramnik - AronianC65 Ruy Lopez, Berlin Defense
  REFINE SEARCH:   White wins (1-0) | Black wins (0-1) | Draws (1/2-1/2)  
 

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 15 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-17-12  Blunderdome: Really, he beat Topalov twice, once in regulation and once in overtime ;)
Apr-17-12  messachess: They are very evenly matched. A rich sponsor apparently wanted to see them matched. Cool. With all his experience, maybe Kramnik has the edge. Stamina will not be a factor.
Apr-17-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  DIO: Hello all. I am trying to find the answer to the following question:

Even if this is a friendly match, will it be rated? I.e. will the 2 participants gain or lose any ELO points?

Thanks in advance.

Apr-17-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Marmot PFL: <He says that he read "The Brothers Karamazov" but didn't like it. This is a stunning remark. I have never met anyone who has read the book and not been completely awed by it's brilliance. He clearly did not understand the book. I don't see how it could be possible to understand it and not like it. Since it's publication in 1880 it has been hailed the world over as humanity's supreme achievement in literature.>

I tried to read it when I was younger but found it too depressing. In one scene that disturbed me a boy puts pieces of sharp metal into some meat and gives it to a dog that had bitten him or something. Probably I will try to read it again one of these days.

I also found parts of Crime and Punishment rather dull but I liked the Columbo type detective.

War and Peace I enjoyed although it took most of one summer to read. Really helps to have the guide to all the characters names and which family they belong to. Pierre and Andrew, kind of a friendship of opposites.

Have to tackle Anna Karenina one of these days (Anne Romney's favorite book).

Apr-17-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Memethecat: <DIO> I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for any help here. try http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/k... I think I read something about Aronian becoming #1 if he wins 4.5-1.5.
Apr-17-12  Strongest Force: Lev will beat Kram like a run-away slave...like a drum...like a redheaded stepchild...like he stole something...anybody got anymore?
Apr-17-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  waustad: This will be interesting. Both are very strong players and I suspect we may have a match that does some see saws. I doubt that it will be the romp that some are predicting, but I've been wrong before.
Apr-17-12  Rook e2: <Apr-17-12
DIO: Hello all. I am trying to find the answer to the following question: Even if this is a friendly match, will it be rated? I.e. will the 2 participants gain or lose any ELO points?

Thanks in advance.
>
I don't know for sure but it seems odd if it doesn't.. I think Aronian will win (if he still has that Tata-form), hopefully with some sharp play but I think the games will be very strategic.

Apr-17-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Kinghunt: <DIO> Yes, it will be rated. <Memethecat> I really don't understand why you'd try and send him there, or why you seem to have such a low opinion of chessgames.
Apr-17-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  waustad: What is rated and what is not may be interesting here. They have a strange hybrid here where if they draw in less than 3 hours they will also play a rapid game. I assume that the rapid games would not be rated but the classical time games will. Here is a source for more info: http://www.kramnikaronian.com/index...
Apr-17-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  waustad: Oh, it starts a little before the start of Siegfried on Saturday. If the net flakes out then I'll be a basket case.
Apr-17-12  maelith: I am rooting for Krammnik, hope he wins..
Apr-17-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  DIO: Meme, Rook, King, waustad, thank you all!
Apr-17-12  bobbylee: I too wonder about his intellectual capacity when he claims Democrats are less ideological and "more sensible" than Republicans.

Good chessplayer, but he knows zilch about American politics.

Apr-17-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: Anyone but Leko.
Apr-17-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: < I have never met anyone who has read the book and not been completely awed by it's brilliance. >

I have. All Russian novels, especially those written before the 20th century are long and somewhat tedious. I read the Brothers K, but just couldn't get interested in it. But, I did like Crime and Punishment and Tolstoy's War and Peace.

War and Peace probably has a higer rating among readers worldwide than any other russian novel.

Interestingly, Alexander Solzhenitsy's very sharp and critical <August 1914> is somewhat of a running debate with Tolstoy on how the Russian experience in WWI should be viewed. Tolstoy highlights the great Russian fighting spirit; Solzhenitsy focuses on the incompetence and corruption among the ruling class and the military leaders, which leads from one disaster to another.

Read the Solzhenitsyn book, it's the most readable and interesting of any of the novels mentioned on this page. I think Boris Spassky mentioned he's a fan of A.S.

Apr-17-12  Blunderdome: <All Russian novels, especially those written before the 20th century are long and somewhat tedious.>

?? I suppose whether something is tedious is subjective, but there are many, many Russian novels which are not long. To name a few pre-1900: The Double, A Hero of Our Time, The Death of Ivan Ilyich. All three are absolutely wonderful, by the way.

I would never call someone stupid for not liking a certain book, though.

Apr-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  lost in space: Cool, I like them both. Hoping for life games.
Apr-18-12  Troller: <He says that he read "The Brothers Karamazov" but didn't like it. This is a stunning remark. I have never met anyone who has read the book and not been completely awed by it's brilliance. He clearly did not understand the book.>

Ah well, when asked about his top-five favourite writers, he mentions Dosto secondly. His remark that he doesn't "particular like" the Brothers K could be interpreted as meaning it is not his favourite Dostoyevsky novel out there; it is clear that he considers Dosto as one of his general favourites and all-time greats.

It is actually also not my personal favourite Dosto novel. In fact I think this preference has something to do with chesswise abilities - you know, great players like Volodya and me prefer other books by Dosto, whereas lesser minds in the area of chess go for the Brothers K...

Apr-18-12  freakclub: Am I the only one who thinks that there'll be a lot of QGD in this Aronian-Kramnik match?
Apr-18-12  friokir: <Interestingly, Alexander Solzhenitsy's very sharp and critical <August 1914> is somewhat of a running debate with Tolstoy on how the Russian experience in WWI should be viewed. Tolstoy highlights the great Russian fighting spirit; Solzhenitsy focuses on the incompetence and corruption among the ruling class and the military leaders, which leads from one disaster to another.>

dude, that's another tolstoy. lev was already dead by that time. man, chessgames never ceases to amaze with it's ignorance. go kazanstan.

Apr-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Kinghunt: <Interestingly, Alexander Solzhenitsy's very sharp and critical <August 1914> is somewhat of a running debate with Tolstoy on how the Russian experience in WWI should be viewed. Tolstoy highlights the great Russian fighting spirit>

Leo Tolstoy died in 1910.

Apr-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sokrates: << I have never met anyone who has read the book and not been completely awed by it's brilliance. >

I have. All Russian novels, especially those written before the 20th century are long and somewhat tedious. I read the Brothers K, but just couldn't get interested in it. But, I did like Crime and Punishment and Tolstoy's War and Peace. >

I have to agree with the latter statement. The Brothers K has some endless passages about religious matters, and Dostoyevsky could really have needed a good editor to cut off superfluous reflexions. When I read it some years ago, it occurred to me that some of the classics in world literature may not stand the test of time. They become rather historical documentations than meaningful psychological epics for the modern reader. Some themes, very important to people before 1900 simply don't exist anymore. Countless novels from the 19th century describe pent-up feelings and renunciations, forbidden love and class-oriented troubles.

Now, on chess and Mr Kramnik it's interesting to observe that his victory over Kasparov still appears as something we regard in disbelief. VK found a way to beat GK - he had a plan and stuck to it, while GK, also in disbelief, wanted to prove VK wrong, and failed both psychologically and objectively. Did that make VK the superior player? Yes, in that match, at that point in GK's career, and against GK. But generally, I have not the slightest doubt that the merits of GK by far exceeds the ditto of VK. Their results are not even comparable - only Fischer and Karpov can compete with Garry. VK's access to the WC-match was dubious, to say the least. His reign not utterly convincing, in fact I hold the highest admiration for VK after his loss to Anand. His rather arrogant attitude (especially against GK) while being champ changed, and he now, also in interviews, appears quite sympathetic. I think it will be a very interesting match.

Apr-18-12  ooda: I can honestly say I'm for excited for this match than I am the world championship.

Kramnik is by far the more experienced match player but I would still pick Aronian by a small margin.

Apr-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: Ignorant < friokir > <Kinghunt> Sorry for the major misstatement--the debate between Solzhenitsy and Tolstoy is in the way each wrote about a turning point war in their era.

For Tolstoy, it is fight between Russia and Napoleon, described in War and Peace. Tolstoy describes this as a patriotic struggle. Although Russia is hevily defeated at Borodino, they chase the Grande Army all the way back to Paris. This would be due to the great leadership of the Russian troops and the courage of the rank and file. A writer like Solzhenitsyn would say much of it was luck--The French coalition had the wrong kind of horses for winter war, and for travelling long distances. A huge error on the part of the planners. Without proper transport, your foodstuffs cannot be properly brought to the troops and artillery cannot be coordinated. A.S. would say this is pure luck that the French weren't better prepared, and that the Russian General staff was as corrupt and incompetent as they were in 1914, when whole Russian armies were destroyed in battles at Tannenberg and at other encounters in Germany's east.

"1914" Is Solzhitsyn's attempt to not let a writer like Tolstoy rewrite history. Tolstoy's War and Peace is fiction, as is "August 1914", and they are two very different interpretations of Russia's military history. It is a literary debate, of sorts. A.S. was an artillery officer in WWII, before being sent to the camps by Joe. He would have a good idea of how to accurately describe a battlefield and planning for war.

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