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| May-22-12 | | Lambda: <Alekhine, Capa, Reshevsky, Botvinnik, Keres, Fine, Flohr--I don't know that Euwe wasn't top 5, but I think there's room for argument.> Just like when Alekhine took back the title: Euwe, Capa, Reshevsky, Botvinnik, Keres, Fine, Flohr-- You could say similar things about late Botvinnik, Petrosian, Spassky, and at times, Kramnik. In terms of ratings (Chessmetrics), Petrosian actually spends parts of his tenure as champion outside the top 5, and spends less than a year of that period as world #1. The lowest Euwe goes is briefly 4th, he spends the majority of his time as champion as world #1. |
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| May-22-12 | | tabul008: It happens in all sports that a weak team or player reaches final or becomes champion eg. West Germany in 1954 football world cup beating Hungary.It frequently happens in tennis too & no body cries foul over it. |
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| May-22-12 | | drik: <laserlight: If you think that Gelfand is an undeserving challenger because he did not face a sufficient test of strength in the qualifying cycle, then you should call for a change in the qualifying cycle regardless of the result of this match.> Bingo! Ever since the 4-game matches were announced; many of us were shaking our heads in disbelief ... before a single pawn was moved in anger. Even if Carlsen or Aronian had won the event - it would still have been WHOLLY unsatisfactory. Anand won a FIDE KO title (the only KO winner remotely deserving of the linear title), but virtually nobody gives that title any credibility. Even if the best player won, he did so in an unsatisfactory event. |
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| May-22-12 | | MORPHYEUS: It's already been changed. Double Round Robin on the next cycle. |
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| May-22-12 | | drik: Regarding the controversy over Gelfand's rating - it should be borne in mind that Kramnik defeated Kasparov & Topalov, despite being heavily outrated by them. In addition, there is an inflation adjusted Elo list of players over the last 40 years - which has Gelfand's peak Elo at No.18 - only 3 Elo points short of Aronian's peak & only 17 Elo short of Carlsen's. http://translate.google.com/transla... |
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| May-22-12 | | MORPHYEUS: All this complaints against Gelfand is all bullsheet. If he's so weak, how come the score is still tied???????? |
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| May-22-12 | | aipragma: <ksr>
Your argument is a non sequitur.
Someone who lost a world championship after a big lead, that was probably due to the oncoming series of health issues that he suffered immediately after the match, does not even resemble a record in the slightest to one who lost a world chess championship game in a record lowest amount of moves...this kind of record is by all definitions, a record of ignominious proportions (ON ANY LEVEL OF PLAY). So yes, it will be remembered 4EVER until its broken by some other unfortunate world chess championship player. |
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| May-22-12 | | drik: <MORPHYEUS: It's already been changed. Double Round Robin on the next cycle.> That is good news - though it is a shame that FIDE seems incapable of doing the right thing unless swamped by a barrage of criticism. Sonas did a detailed statistical analysis of the best methods to choose a world champion - http://www.chess.co.uk/twic/sonas1.... He looked at 13,000 different methods - the top two were large Swisses with top finshers joining the reigning champion & the No.1 rated player in QF/SF matches. The no.3 method was a quad-round robin - exactly like the 1959 Candidates Tournament! The method FIDE chose for this cycle was one of the worst possible - at least they seem to have chosen something reasonable this time! |
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| May-22-12 | | Troller: <So yes, it will be remembered 4EVER until its broken> Would the above sentence have the exact same meaning if the "4EVER" was removed? In that case <ksr> was correct. Mind you, to be remembered for 100 years for the shortest WC match loss is also something, even if it is not "forever"... |
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| May-22-12 | | Mr. Bojangles: <tabul008: Anand is not #1 or #2 based on current elo rating.But elo is based on all tournament games.Match format(long) is a different ball game altogether!here Anand is the king!Carlsen is yet to prove himself here!> The jury is still out on Carlsen until he proves himself. It would be interesting to see how he fares against other SGMs in a match. |
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| May-22-12 | | laserlight: <drik> Your link to Sonas' article seems to be broken. What's the correct URL? |
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| May-22-12 | | aipragma: <Troller>
Thats why we have statistics... ;)
A whole new category:
Shortest games in WCC history.
Hence 4EVER...4EVER...4EVER |
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| May-22-12 | | Chessinfinite: Imo going by some reports at some sites and crowther's twic, I think Anand has to ensure that Gelfand goes to London to participate in the Candidates in 2013, where Gelfand will no doubt be treated like a Brit Hero, or even given an audience with their head of State !.. Gelfand: "Ratings are over-hyped, and people should not attach too much importance to them" This comment has to receive the highest acclaim in Brit press, and i can see GM Short and other GMs dancing around their Hero Gelfand for making their case at the World Championships :) |
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| May-22-12 | | Mr. Bojangles: Gelfand's record of shortest game loss in a title match is not such a bad thing as it would remind future generations that he did compete for the title in his career. An achievement all GMs aspire to but only a handful ever manage. |
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| May-22-12 | | Mr. Bojangles: <First, that above will happen only in your dreams. > Lol and Rev Bobwhoosta can D-R-E-A-M |
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| May-22-12 | | redwhitechess: btw, here the link for compilation of commentaries for round 8, and something special for progressive metal fans, please kindly visit and enjoy http://red-white-chess.blogspot.com... |
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| May-22-12 | | Mr. Bojangles: <Judah: So, IOW, <Bobwhoosta>, I think that talking about a "legitimate" contender is silly. There's just the recognized contender, and if he wins the match, he's the legitimate WC. If your randomly-selected retard managed to win his match against the reigning WC, he'd be just as legitimate a champion as anyone else.> Word! |
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May-22-12
 | | Richard Taylor: < aipragma: And for those wishing Anand to lose just so that all who are currently feeling Anand will win, will somehow be given some huge emotional setback, I remind them all, that Anand is not some self-aggrandizing chess champion like Kasparov, nor is he less deserving than an underdog like Gelfand. > True, but he has not been playing very well in this match. The last game was streaky. He look a bit like a gaffed fish when he plays. He is not the man who beat Kramnik so well... |
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May-22-12
 | | SetNoEscapeOn: <redwhitechess>
Great job, very entertaining. |
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| May-22-12 | | aipragma: <RT>
I'm not sure if you read a previous post of mine (made on page 83 or 84) that has the end of the msg echoing a remark by Kasparov similar to your views: "...As for the number of draws in this world championship, only indicates, what Kasparov said about Anand not having the right motivation to play his best level of chess..." |
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| May-22-12 | | Mr. Bojangles: <
Gelfand: "Ratings are over-hyped, and people should not attach too much importance to them"
>
Well, when someone who continually excel at the very highest levels of chess for 5 years (Mexico '07, WCup '09, Candidates '11 and now Moscow '12) makes the above claim then it does have some validity. If anyone is justified to make such claim it is Boris Gdlfand, why? Because he proved it. |
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| May-22-12 | | arjunkakar: i just cant wait now. It seems like a bout (so far) where both boxers were dancing around waiting for the other to punch instead of risking the first blow. But when one did and scored the other has to respond and did. What happened next is such a mystery now and a mouth watreing prospect. |
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May-22-12
 | | spinal pat: <redwhitechess:> \m/ Nice read! |
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| May-22-12 | | badest: <Mr. Bojangles: Gelfand's record of shortest game loss in a title match is not such a bad thing as it would remind future generations that he did compete for the title in his career. An achievement all GMs aspire to but only a handful ever manage.> While it is true that everyone wants to be noticed, it is a bit doubtful if being noticed for the quickest decisive game is such a good thing. It would certainly make some people wonder if he had anything to do in a WC-match. |
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| May-22-12 | | drik: <laserlight: <drik> Your link to Sonas' article seems to be broken. What's the correct URL?> Bizarre. It is broken when I try to use it, but it accessible as the first Google search result for the terms - world chess championship format sonas. |
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