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TOURNAMENT STANDINGS
Tal Memorial Tournament

Magnus Carlsen5.5/9(+2 -0 =7)[view games]
Fabiano Caruana5/9(+3 -2 =4)[view games]
Teimour Radjabov5/9(+2 -1 =6)[view games]
Alexander Morozevich4.5/9(+3 -3 =3)[view games]
Levon Aronian4.5/9(+2 -2 =5)[view games]
Alexander Grischuk4.5/9(+2 -2 =5)[view games]
Vladimir Kramnik4.5/9(+2 -2 =5)[view games]
Luke McShane4/9(+3 -4 =2)[view games]
Hikaru Nakamura4/9(+1 -2 =6)[view games]
Evgeny Tomashevsky3.5/9(+1 -3 =5)[view games]

 page 1 of 2; games 1-25 of 45  PGN Download
Game  ResultMoves Year Event/LocaleOpening
1. Grischuk vs McShane 1-063 2012 Tal MemorialA29 English, Four Knights, Kingside Fianchetto
2. Aronian vs Nakamura 1-053 2012 Tal MemorialA29 English, Four Knights, Kingside Fianchetto
3. Radjabov vs E Tomashevsky 1-031 2012 Tal MemorialC45 Scotch Game
4. Carlsen vs Kramnik ½-½23 2012 Tal MemorialE32 Nimzo-Indian, Classical
5. Morozevich vs Caruana 1-056 2012 Tal MemorialC81 Ruy Lopez, Open, Howell Attack
6. Caruana vs Nakamura ½-½107 2012 Tal MemorialD22 Queen's Gambit Accepted
7. Kramnik vs Grischuk 1-029 2012 Tal MemorialE97 King's Indian
8. E Tomashevsky vs Aronian ½-½25 2012 Tal MemorialE06 Catalan, Closed, 5.Nf3
9. Morozevich vs Carlsen ½-½59 2012 Tal MemorialE34 Nimzo-Indian, Classical, Noa Variation
10. McShane vs Radjabov 0-148 2012 Tal MemorialB30 Sicilian
11. Grischuk vs Morozevich 0-160 2012 Tal MemorialA09 Reti Opening
12. Nakamura vs E Tomashevsky ½-½41 2012 Tal MemorialC36 King's Gambit Accepted, Abbazia Defense
13. Carlsen vs Caruana ½-½30 2012 Tal MemorialD85 Grunfeld
14. Aronian vs McShane 0-138 2012 Tal MemorialD15 Queen's Gambit Declined Slav
15. Radjabov vs Kramnik ½-½25 2012 Tal MemorialC65 Ruy Lopez, Berlin Defense
16. Carlsen vs Grischuk ½-½40 2012 Tal MemorialC78 Ruy Lopez
17. McShane vs Nakamura ½-½79 2012 Tal MemorialB84 Sicilian, Scheveningen
18. Morozevich vs Radjabov ½-½37 2012 Tal MemorialC80 Ruy Lopez, Open
19. Caruana vs E Tomashevsky 1-032 2012 Tal MemorialC84 Ruy Lopez, Closed
20. Kramnik vs Aronian ½-½40 2012 Tal MemorialC47 Four Knights
21. Nakamura vs Kramnik ½-½40 2012 Tal MemorialA33 English, Symmetrical
22. E Tomashevsky vs McShane ½-½48 2012 Tal MemorialA54 Old Indian, Ukrainian Variation, 4.Nf3
23. Aronian vs Morozevich 0-140 2012 Tal MemorialD31 Queen's Gambit Declined
24. Grischuk vs Caruana ½-½31 2012 Tal MemorialD92 Grunfeld, 5.Bf4
25. Radjabov vs Carlsen 0-159 2012 Tal MemorialC45 Scotch Game
 page 1 of 2; games 1-25 of 45  PGN Download
  REFINE SEARCH:   White wins (1-0) | Black wins (0-1) | Draws (1/2-1/2)  
 

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 60 OF 73 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jun-17-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tiggler: Time to get some sleep, folks. The last round starts in 5 hours (at 5am EST in USA). Two hours earlier, so they finish in time for closing ceremony.
Jun-18-12  selfmate: <FSR>

Since you are a lawyer, what is the correct rationale for why chess games are uncopyrightable?

Jun-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: Here are some articles pertaining to the subject of copyrighting chess games:

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/... http://marginalrevolution.com/margi... http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kibit... http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/b...

Jun-18-12  selfmate: <Tiggler> Goodnight.
Jun-18-12  selfmate: <FSR> Ok, I'll have a look.
Jun-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: Will carlsen play something aggressive, to try and win/tie for first, or will he be happy finishing in the top four?
Jun-18-12  csmath: I'd really like to see an attempt to make copyrighted games. How would the ideas from chess engines be settled? I think we all know that nowadays GMs are using chess engines to get the ideas and to test them. So what if a novelty move is produced by chess engine that has an author? Who would own that move?

By the way chess is hugely popular in Russia and China where copyright laws are weak and piracy is rampant. Americans and good deal of western world would pay nothing for chess. How would you enforce copyrights in China and Russia?

Jun-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Bobwhoosta: There is a very simple problem with copyright in games. Someone who does extensive openings analysis could very easily copyright a theoretical novelty before a game. Could someone then play that in another game? What if two games went the same way, from start to finish? Could the "holder" of the original copyright sue the player of the second game??
Jun-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tiggler: <FSR: Chess games have never been copyrightable. And I am a lawyer. (Incidentally, in English, "uncopyrightable" is the longest word with all different letters. Even better than "ambidextrously.")>

Then I guess you are not an IP lawyer. If you were, you would know that "copyright" is not a verb, only a nown describing a right which exists irrespective of any measure that might be taken by the owner to enforce it. (Bern Convention of 1886, principals since extended to all intellectual creations and inventions in WIPO).

Jun-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: <selfmate> The below is based on a comment I previously made on the Hikaru Nakamura page.

As I understand it, chess games are not deemed original works since many of the moves (sometimes even all) have been played and/or analyzed in published analysis before. Consider, for example, F Rhine vs D Sprenkle, 1981. In that game, my 18th move was reckoned an important theoretical novelty by <Chess Informant>, the 8th-9th most important TN in Volume 32. But 1.e4 had been played since the dawn of modern chess, and the Sicilian Defense was analysed by Giulio Polerio in a 1594 manuscript. 2.Nf3 became popular because of Morphy's advocacy, and 2...Nf6 was played by Nimzowitsch and Rubinstein beginning in 1912. http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches... The 6...Nc6 line was introduced in Gligoric vs Larsen, 1959, and Gligoric improved on his 13.Kd3 in that game with 13.Kd1! in Gligoric vs A Matanovic, 1961. But I'm sure others had advocated it in analysis before he played it. Unzicker introduced 14.Ne4! in Unzicker vs O Sarapu, 1970. 18.Nxd6!, "my" TN, was stated by David Levy in his biography of Gligoric as being the move that Unzicker had intended. It was also recommended in Keene and Levy's book <Sicilian Defense 4: Unusual Second Moves for Black>. I had seen it recommended in both of those books before I played it. I didn't know it at the time, but the move had been played in a game that predated mine, Pritchett-Gonzalez, Buenos Aires Olympiad, 1978, which was published in <The New Chess Player>, Volume 4. http://www.365chess.com/game.php?gi... Gonzalez and Sprenkle both played 18...Qxd6, which Levy had not mentioned. AFAIK, Sprenkle was the first player ever to play 22...Nd8.

So when Rhine-Sprenkle was published in <Chess Informant>, the <Encyclopedia of Chess Openings>, John Nunn's book <Beating the Sicilian>, and in various other books (most recently the 2012 book <1000 TN!! - The Best Theoretical Novelties> - http://www.chessinformant.rs/1000-t...; http://www.chesscafe.com/text/cbcaf...) and databases, how should the royalties for it have been apportioned?

Jun-18-12  Jim Bartle: "If you were, you would know that "copyright" is not a verb, only a nown describing a right..."

"copyright [kop-ee-rahyt]

"verb (used with object)
4. to secure a copyright on."

http://dictionary.reference.com/bro...

Jun-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: <Tiggler: <FSR: Chess games have never been copyrightable. And I am a lawyer. .... >

Then I guess you are not an IP lawyer.>

True.

<If you were, you would know that "copyright" is not a verb, only a nown [sic] describing a right which exists irrespective of any measure that might be taken by the owner to enforce it. (Bern Convention of 1886, principals [sic] since extended to all intellectual creations and inventions in WIPO).>

Silly me.

<cop·y·right/ˈkäpēˌrīt/

Noun:
The exclusive legal right, given to an originator or an assignee to print, publish, perform, film, or record literary, artistic, or...

Verb:
Secure copyright for (such material).>

http://bit.ly/KG32VL

Jun-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: <Tiggler: "copyright" is not a verb>

There is no word in English that can't be verbed.

Jun-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  jahhaj: <al wazir: There is no word in English that can't be verbed.>

There is no word in English that can't be verbed by Americans.

Fixed that for you.

Jun-18-12  piltdown man: What's a "nown"?
Jun-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Beholder: <piltdown man: What's a "nown"?>

It's when you do not own something.

Jun-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: <Beholder: <piltdown man: What's a "nown"?>

It's when you do not own something.>

More like the opposite of that:

<Definition of NOWN

archaic variant of own> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...

Jun-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Absentee: < FSR: <Beholder: <piltdown man: What's a "nown"?> It's when you do not own something.>

More like the opposite of that:

<Definition of NOWN

archaic variant of own>>

So when folks in the middle ages played shooters they typed like "Thus I have nowned thee, sirrah!"?

Jun-18-12  Lambda: <Then I guess you are not an IP lawyer. If you were, you would know that "copyright" is not a verb, only a nown describing a right which exists irrespective of any measure that might be taken by the owner to enforce it. (Bern Convention of 1886, principals since extended to all intellectual creations and inventions in WIPO).>

Thing about language is it's subjective. For instance, anyone who would describe themselves as an "IP lawyer" and anyone working for WIPO is using the term "intellectual property", so I would automatically dismiss anything they said about the subject as suspected propaganda. (They might be trying to confuse you, or they might have been successfully confused by someone else, but either possibility results in the same result.)

Jun-18-12  firebyrd: <Incidentally, in English, "uncopyrightable" is the longest word with all different letters>

But, if you have several things that cannot be copyrighted (like chess games), you could refer to them as "uncopyrightables" for one letter more.

Jun-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Beholder: "The Uncopyrightables". Sounds like a name for a movie.
Jun-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  achieve: Final round -- Games are well underway!

- - -

Ungooglable is probably an oxymoron, but neverthelesserable i entered 'ungoogleables' in the box and it returned 3500 results:

https://www.google.nl/#hl=nl&gs_nf=...

Jun-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  moronovich: Lol! But did you enter "neverthelesserable" !?
Jun-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: <firebyrd: <Incidentally, in English, "uncopyrightable" is the longest word with all different letters>

But, if you have several things that cannot be copyrighted (like chess games), you could refer to them as "uncopyrightables" for one letter more.>

Many years ago I heard the same argument advanced on <The Dating Game>, of all places. According to Wiktionary, the word has indeed been used:

<uncopyrightables

English

Noun

uncopyrightables

(rare) Plural form of uncopyrightable.

 [quotations ▲]
1960 March, W. J. G., H. K. S., “‘Copyright’ Protection for Uncopyrightables: The Common-Law Doctrines”, in University of Pennsylvania Law Review, volume 108, number 5, pages 699–734.

1969 January, Paul Goldstein, “Federal System Ordering of the Copyright Interest”, in Columbia Law Review, volume 69, number 1, Columbia Law Review Association, Inc., page 71, Intrinsic state doctrines are further condemned by Sears and Compco’s second principle for their tendency to extend the equivalent of copyright protection to statutory uncopyrightables.

1974 April, Dane J. Durham, “Goldstein v. California: Validity of State Copyright under the Copyright and Supremacy Clauses”, in Hastings Law Journal volume 25 (1973–4), page 1201, Indeed, Judge Hand himself admitted that the harshness of a complete denial of protection for statutory uncopyrightables was a persuasive element in the alternative line of thought.> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/uncop...

Jun-18-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  achieve: Ha! Do you think I'm stupid?!!

hehe, I will, in a minute ;)

How are things shaping up now, in Moscow? I need a link... These days you are lost at sea without the right "links"

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