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|Jun-26-12|| ||Pawn Dillinger: Redeemed: Obviously. And Lazlo Polgar has one daughter that's been near the very pinnacle of the sport (Judit) another not quite as close (Susan), and another not even that close (Zsofia). I call that hard work AND talent. Outstanding talent. And full immersion. But I wouldn't cite three people and call that a refutation of what I wrote. For example, Polgar didn't try out his experiment with boxers, did he? Writers? Track stars? No. As a journalist, I made a living tracking people with dreams. I had the same dreams myself (and to some extent still do — haven't we all?). All the athletes I covered worked as hard as anyone could possibly work. But in the end, some had "it" and some didn't. In baseball, for example, dreams died as early as high school, then junior college, then college, then Single A, Double A, Triple A and even the Major Leagues. Back to chess: No one did an experiment with Samuel Reshevsky, whose answer was "how do I breathe" when asked how he did what he did as a child. On the other hand, Kramnik says he studies 12 hours a day. But let's get back to the root of this: I was marveling at young talent, who have already reached heights most us can never hope to reach. Who knows if they can take it all the way. I've always been big on motivation and a never-say-die idealist who tries to bend reality to his will. But then there's a little thing called reality. Fifteen linear world champions since 1866. Enough said.|
|Jun-27-12|| ||parmetd: sssh Redeemed! NO fair using evidence!
Seriously though, the guy clearly wants to believe in his myth quite badly so leave him in his bubble.
|Jun-27-12|| ||rilkefan: "of course you didn't mean Einstein either as while its known he did awful in school..."|
This is false. Einstein was observed to be gifted from an early age.
And even ignoring that your claim fails inspection. Plenty of extremely bright folks have done badly at school due to simple boredom. Or emotional difficulties. Or ...
Also you apparently don't know anything about selection bias.
|Jun-27-12|| ||twinlark: <Pawn Dillinger>
Here's one http://ratings.fide.com/id.phtml?ev....
Also you can use the advance search facility to find every player in the world with a FIDE rating of less than 2000. There are nearly 80,000 such players, and each of them has a FIDE card with a ratings graph on the card: http://ratings.fide.com/advaction.p....
|Jun-27-12|| ||Pawn Dillinger: Twinlark:
Outstanding! Thanks again. I look forward to a good final round. Looks like some good action coming up, what with Biel, the Olympiad, etc.
|Jun-27-12|| ||Pawn Dillinger: parmetd: Can you possibly be more of a child? Do you know how to even read, analyze and interpret complete sentences? It's like debating an infant. What, the Lazlo Polgar "evidence" somehow refutes my points? And I "want" to believe in a "myth"? You don't even know me, so how would you know what I "want" to believe? You are sitting here creating a make-believe issue out of a comment whose intent was to extol the virtues and fine play of young, gifted players coming up in the chess world. Keep the blinders on and keep whispering like a little girl to your friends. You are quite amusing. I'll get back to enjoying chess. Sorry for treating you like an intelligent adult. As a clueless youth, you are to be pitied and ignored, not chided.|
|Jun-27-12|| ||King Death: < twinlark: While the rating floor was initially 2000, it's been dropping over the years until now it's 1200...>|
When I got my FIDE rating in the 1980s the floor for men was 2200 and for women it was 1800.
<...As an aside, it's one of the contributors to ratings inflation further up the food chain.>
Seriously? You mean that thing that doesn't exist, that's an illusion? I'm such an idiot because I thought that the top few players today are all greater than Fischer since they've all gotten above 2785. Shows what I know.
|Jun-27-12|| ||twinlark: <KD>
I didn't realise the rating floor was two-tiered along gender lines, and higher than 2000 for men, so thanks for the additional info.
I'm not sure what the sarcasm is about, though. In fact, I'm not even sure I know what you're trying to say.
|Jun-27-12|| ||frogbert: <While the rating floor was initially 2000, it's been dropping over the years until now it's 1200. As an aside, it's one of the contributors to ratings inflation further up the food chain.>|
as an opposite view, i haven't seen any math yet showing how lowering the rating floor creates rating inflation.
do you have any kind of documentation for your claim, twinlark? i.e. more than speculations from gms who haven't spent even 5 minutes calculating anything, preferably.
|Jun-27-12|| ||twinlark: <frogbert>
Umm...I incorrectly (obviously) recalled you arguing that, or at least including it as one of several factors. I thought the reasoning was that the new lower rated cohorts provided easy points for the (now) middle rated players, boosting their ratings that would otherwise have remained static, and so on up the rating slope.
If there's no mathematical proof, my bad.
In which case, I retract my "aside".
|Jun-27-12|| ||King Death: <twinlark> That sarcasm wasn't meant for you it was for the argument that there's been no inflation in the face of evidence that shows the opposite, i.e. the gradual drift upward. And we definitely agree no matter what the cause is.|
Informant used to publish both lists in the back of the volumes when they came out twice a year, at least into the 80s. After that somebody else might know when things changed. Arpad Elo himself used to do all of the calculations for FIDE but I assume that some time along he gave it up.
|Jun-27-12|| ||whiteshark: Dubov lost his last round game vs Alekseev while Vitiugov and Andreikin
drew their games. These 3 players have 7.5 points. http://russiachess.org/live/online/...|
|Jun-27-12|| ||Filip Marko: So Dubos becomes third after Andreikin and Vitiugov. Next time he should try to draw.|
|Jun-27-12|| ||Eyal: Dubov qualified for the Russian championship, which is the main thing - it doesn't terribly matter where exactly he finished on tiebreak relative to Vitiugov & Andreikin. On the other hand, I suppose the tiebreak really matters with regard to the four players who finished with 7 points - Sjugirov, Potkin, Alekseev & Demchenko - since only two of them qualify. Alekseev had a great finish, btw, coming from behind with 3 consecutive wins.|
|Jun-27-12|| ||Beholder: It would be highly entertaining to see how Dubov fares against the heavyweights at the Superfinal -- Kramnik, Svidler, Moro, Grischuk, etc. Not sure if all of them will be there, though.|
|Jun-27-12|| ||parmetd: @rilkefan.
wrong. Einstein was thought to be a failure during his schooling and received poor grades including an F in math.
As for bright people doing poor in school, you are right here but you won't find me saying anything contrary in the post above either so I have no idea why you deviated subjects.
As to selection bias, here you clearly show how utterly out of your element you are as you might notice.... I did not select Einstein as an example. The other person did. I just used his (and apparently your own as well) lack of knowledge on Einstein to disprove his point.
Anyways, I am done arguing this subject. The nature nurture debate likely won't be solved in our life time (though twin studies are interesting). but the truth is if you want success... it is going to take hardwork. This point is all I was ever trying to make.
|Jun-27-12|| ||polarmis: It finished, 1: Andreikin 2: Dubov 3: Vitiugov (all 7.5/11). Sjugirov and Potkin qualified for the superfinal from the group on 7. |
Hope to write a report soon!
|Jun-27-12|| ||parmetd: How did they do tiebreaks?|
|Jun-27-12|| ||Kinghunt: Was Morozevich's 8/11 last year some kind of record for this event? This year 7.5/11 is enough for a share of first, and in 2010, Nepomniachtchi was sole first with only 7/11. Regardless, congratulations to all the qualifiers. We can expect great things from all of them in the years to come.|
|Jun-27-12|| ||paulalbert: Interesting that the two near elite players Nyepomnyashchiy and Yakovenko finished well down in this, indicating both the limited predictive value of past performance ratings and also the breadth of high class,particularly young, chess talent in Russia.|
|Jun-27-12|| ||haydn20: Lots of nonsense out there re Einstein's education.
1. Age 2-5 he was thought "slow" by some of family due to a mild speech difficulty (echolalia). By age 5, no one thought this any more.
2. Einstein himself, quoted in Isaacson's bio: "I never failed in mathematics. Before I was 15, I had mastered...calculus."
3. Einstein was an ideal student--smart, open-minded, eager. He was reading and understanding Kant at age 13, e.g.
4. He hated the authoritarian regime at the school he attended as an adolescent and left before he could be kicked out. This is why his teachers there considered him a "poor student" even though he was in our terms a 4.0.
5. He tried to get into the equivalent of MIT at 16. However, he flunked the parts of the entrance exam on French, life-sciences and politics, for the simple reason that he had never studied the subjects.
6. He then spent two years at a private high school, where he graduated 2nd in his class. He loved this school. (Too bad no one knows who graduated first!)
|Jun-27-12|| ||rilkefan: <<parmetd>: I have no idea>|
Yeah. Owls to Athens.
|Jun-27-12|| ||fisayo123: I wonder how long it takes before Dubov stops playing the Richter-Rauzer. I don't get the point of that variation; weaking your kingside even for the bishop pair that early in the game is very questionable, especially when white undermines blacks solid pawn cover with a timely f5. Even Houdini thinks its suspect as with perfect play fromboth sides whites advantage keeps rising. As for Nepo, he needs to work more on his openings with both colors esp black. Playing the Grunfeld everytime won't cut it.|
|Jun-27-12|| ||BUNA: <Kinghunt: Was Morozevich's 8/11 last year some kind of record for this event?>|
In 2009 Tomashevsky also won with 8/11.
> 62nd Russian Championship Higher League (2009)
But I couldn't find any information about earlier tournaments.
Btw. in this years edition of the "higher league" (actually in russian it's "highest league") there were the last three european champions:
Jakovenko (2012), Potkin (2011) and Nepo (2010). Only one of them got through to the "superfinal".
|Jun-27-12|| ||Eyal: <parmetd: How did they do tiebreaks?>|
Judging by the final crosstable at the official site (http://www.russiachess.org/download..., rankings-11) it was by Buchholz (sum of opponents' scores) - see the BH column.
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