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TOURNAMENT STANDINGS
FIDE Grand Prix Beijing Tournament

Shakhriyar Mamedyarov7/11(+5 -2 =4)[games]
Alexander Grischuk6.5/11(+3 -1 =7)[games]
Peter Leko6/11(+1 -0 =10)[games]
Veselin Topalov6/11(+3 -2 =6)[games]
Sergey Karjakin5.5/11(+3 -3 =5)[games]
Wang Yue5.5/11(+2 -2 =7)[games]
Alexander Morozevich5.5/11(+3 -3 =5)[games]
Anish Giri5.5/11(+3 -3 =5)[games]
Boris Gelfand5/11(+2 -3 =6)[games]
Wang Hao5/11(+2 -3 =6)[games]
Vassily Ivanchuk5/11(+2 -3 =6)[games]
Gata Kamsky3.5/11(+1 -5 =5)[games]

 page 1 of 3; games 1-25 of 66  PGN Download
Game  ResultMoves YearEvent/LocaleOpening
1. A Giri vs Karjakin 0-1422013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingC67 Ruy Lopez
2. Morozevich vs Wang Yue ½-½602013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingB21 Sicilian, 2.f4 and 2.d4
3. Gelfand vs Topalov 0-1412013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingD97 Grunfeld, Russian
4. Leko vs Mamedyarov ½-½512013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingB90 Sicilian, Najdorf
5. Kamsky vs Grischuk 0-1392013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingB30 Sicilian
6. Ivanchuk vs Wang Hao ½-½282013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingD40 Queen's Gambit Declined, Semi-Tarrasch
7. A Giri vs Morozevich ½-½222013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingC11 French
8. Wang Yue vs Gelfand ½-½222013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingD73 Neo-Grunfeld, 5.Nf3
9. Topalov vs Leko ½-½352013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingE15 Queen's Indian
10. Mamedyarov vs Kamsky ½-½362013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingD15 Queen's Gambit Declined Slav
11. Grischuk vs Ivanchuk ½-½402013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingB42 Sicilian, Kan
12. Karjakin vs Wang Hao 1-0302013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingB09 Pirc, Austrian Attack
13. Kamsky vs Topalov ½-½752013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingD37 Queen's Gambit Declined
14. Leko vs Wang Yue ½-½592013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingD41 Queen's Gambit Declined, Semi-Tarrasch
15. Wang Hao vs Grischuk ½-½472013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingD85 Grunfeld
16. Ivanchuk vs Mamedyarov 0-1432013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingE10 Queen's Pawn Game
17. Gelfand vs A Giri 0-1372013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingA88 Dutch, Leningrad, Main Variation with c6
18. Morozevich vs Karjakin 0-1352013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingE15 Queen's Indian
19. Wang Yue vs Kamsky 1-0812013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingA35 English, Symmetrical
20. Morozevich vs Gelfand 1-0342013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingD97 Grunfeld, Russian
21. A Giri vs Leko ½-½252013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingE46 Nimzo-Indian
22. Topalov vs Ivanchuk ½-½462013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingB32 Sicilian
23. Mamedyarov vs Wang Hao 1-0372013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingD10 Queen's Gambit Declined Slav
24. Karjakin vs Grischuk ½-½312013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingB80 Sicilian, Scheveningen
25. Grischuk vs Mamedyarov 1-0612013FIDE Grand Prix BeijingA29 English, Four Knights, Kingside Fianchetto
 page 1 of 3; games 1-25 of 66  PGN Download
  REFINE SEARCH:   White wins (1-0) | Black wins (0-1) | Draws (1/2-1/2)  
 

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 25 OF 25 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-16-13  Rolfo: <No, that would not be funny at all ... it would indeed be very sad. Esp. if the oil-money push down Karjakin or Caruana.>

Agree. The use of Azeri oil money smells, it's enough for a while. I wonder why AGON couldn't collect more money from a much wider group of sponsors, or is AGON out? Besides, I think Radja needs a break to recover from whatever trouble of life and/or chess that hit him. Now Mamedyarov is closer to the Candidates, all by himself

Jul-16-13  tolengoy: <to which he qualified by rating.>

Only in chess this seems to be a prime commodity. Yet not relied upon in all other sports...they need to qualify to the finals by playing in preliminaries. It is in this light that Efren Bata Reyes will be a greater sports hero than Magnus Carlsen can ever dreamed to be.

Jul-17-13  FairyPromotion: <plang: Well, yea, and if he loses to them he will hurt Mamedyrovs chances - still doesn't really answer my question.

I brought it up since the poster seemed to be encouraging "hanky panky" which, I assume, everyone would condemn.>

Lol, what are you talking about? I was merely pointing out that Radjabov who withdrew from two Grand Prix tournaments already, might be willing to play in the final one, because if he <wins> that tournament, he might help Mamedyarov, or even himself* (though <alexmagnus> hinted that that's not the case). If you read it as "hanky panky," then that's your problem. I personally don't see anything wrong with what I said. Sure he might not win, and yet decide the outcome for the others, but if there is something suspicious I'd be the first one to call it out. However I've seen nothing from Radjabov to hint that he'll be dropping games on purpose. And if players were to be encouraged for "hanky panky" by my posts, then Grischuk would be the one to benefit, as both Svidler and Karjakin will be playing, too.

Jul-17-13  FairyPromotion: As for the wild card discussion, obviously the host country/company will try to get a player from their place. But if an independent sponsor can be found, than I'd say Caruana has the upperhand, especially if he breaks 2800. A lot might still depend on their future form, and ratings. If Caruana makes it out of the GP, Grischuk is certainly another candidate, as is Mamedyarov.
Jul-17-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: <Only in chess this seems to be a prime commodity.>

Prime commodity? Hehe, rating qualifiers are actually a minority in all championship-related events (the only notable exception was the FIDE WC 2005). But the <winner> almost always comes from this minority :).

Jul-17-13  toktoktok: <Only in chess this seems to be a prime commodity. Yet not relied upon in all other sports...they need to qualify to the finals by playing in preliminaries. It is in this light that Efren Bata Reyes will be a greater sports hero than Magnus Carlsen can ever dreamed to be.>

I agree.

Jul-17-13  toktoktok: List of the pampered goldfishes who were given 2 year free passes.

http://www.chessvibes.com/reports/f...

Jul-17-13  usuario x: if our newest registered member agree with trollengay then he must be right
Jul-17-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jim Bartle: Wow, tolengoy agrees with himself (toktoktok)!
Jul-17-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Edeltalent: <Refused: If either Aronian or Kramnik decide, to make short draws and forfeit the Rapid or Blitz Tiebreaker, they have met the the criterion. And basically they are in no need to deliver a result, there.>

But that strategy would cost them rating points, and as it was their ratings that freed them of needing to deliver a result in the first place, they probably won't want to give them away that easily.>

Case in point, where someone in a win or go home situation does not even make an effort with White: Morozevich vs Grischuk, 2011.

Must be those precious points were paramount.

Jul-17-13  Edeltalent: <perfidious: <Edeltalent: <Refused: If either Aronian or Kramnik decide, to make short draws and forfeit the Rapid or Blitz Tiebreaker, they have met the the criterion. And basically they are in no need to deliver a result, there.>

But that strategy would cost them rating points, and as it was their ratings that freed them of needing to deliver a result in the first place, they probably won't want to give them away that easily.>

Case in point, where someone in a win or go home situation does not even make an effort with White: Morozevich vs Grischuk, 2011. Must be those precious points were paramount.>

But Moro was rated lower than Grish and gained points with the draw ;-)

Jul-17-13  Refused: That was excactöy perfidious point.

But the fun at kibitzing back then, was some people were really blaming Grischuk for that short draw. Probably because they are still upset about Grischuk's 8 gmove draw with white in that fourth rapid game against Kramnik. :)

I am so looking forward to Grischuk repeating that tactic. xd A pity he will meet Le quite early.

Jul-17-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  parmetd: Thanks for posting that alexmagnus, I guess it had never dawned on me how deep rating qualification essentially goes.
Jul-18-13  badest: http://www.chessvibes.com/catch-the...
Jul-18-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: < I guess it had never dawned on me how deep rating qualification essentially goes.>

It just shows that pre-World-Cup qualification stages, while exist, hardly play a role in the WC cycle (and that despite the majority of World Cup participants qualifying from those stages). The only exception is, as I already mentioned, Aronian - he won World Cup 2005 after qualifying to it through the European Championship 2004 - and then getting all the way to the 2007 WC tournament).

Jul-19-13  tolengoy: <It just shows that pre-World-Cup qualification stages, while exist, hardly play a role in the WC cycle>

The participants to the WC should only be zonal qualifiers. Seeded players based on a flawed elo ranking system, performance on unrelated past events and sponsors/organizers wildcard preference should not earn free a ticket to the opera.

If these pampered bets want to participate, they should join the zonals and earn their berth...they must prove their worth each and every time.

In the end, it's the journey that matters and not the destination- the end does not justify the means.

Jul-19-13  tolengoy: <WC cycle>- there should be none. The World Cup should be held annually with only zonal qualifiers as participants (i.e. no seeded players please). The winner will be the World Champion for the year. Whoever accumulates the most no. of titles proves himself the best in his generation.
Jul-19-13  nok: Okay, but only if the two-game matches become six-game matches. Two-game leave too much to chance. And if that means rapid play instead of classical so be it, it doesn't matter. Six rapids is much better than two classical.
Jul-19-13  tolengoy: <Okay, but only if the two-game matches become six-game matches>

Twas the way Fischer did his march to the top. He qualified by joining the zonals...onwards to the interzonals...then to the candidates (a six game match).

He was never pampered like the golfish..he is a true piranha.

<And if that means rapid play instead of classical so be it, it doesn't matter. Six rapids is much better than two classical.>

I agree..<nok> are you a genius or what?

Jul-19-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jim Bartle: "...then to the candidates (a six game match)."

Fischer's candidates matches were 10 or 12 games.

Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <<Kanatahodets> By now I can say that machines are better in every aspect of chess game than humans, just because they will beat any GM with huge margin.> I would disagree. While the best machines will likely beat GMs most of the time there are still many aspects of the game where humans are considered better:

1. Endgames, where regardless of the speed of the machine they often cannot search deep enough in a reasonable amount of time to be able to determine winning lines.

2. Closed positions, where judgment comes into play rather than precise calculation.

3. Fortresses, where machines cannot often see that they have no winning chances, even though they may be ahead in material.

4. Planning. Machines simply don't plan, they calculate. They will play the move(s) that lead to the best positional evaluation according to the search depth that they are able to achieve subject to the time controls.

Of course, machines are getting better all the time, both hardware and software. Ask me again in 10 or maybe even 5 years' time and I might give you a different answer.

Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: < 1. Endgames, where regardless of the speed of the machine they often cannot search deep enough in a reasonable amount of time to be able to determine winning lines.>

Engines are indeed relatively weak in the endgame, but I think the reason is not the horizon effect (how? in the endgame there are less pieces, so they can calculate much deeper), but faulty evaluation functions. Obviously, endgame positions require a different evaluation function that middlegame ones. After all, the horizon effect would not explain away the simplest endgame misjudgment possible: early versions of Rybka (if run without tablebases) evaluated a simple K+P vs K endgame in drawn case as +3. Although calculating all the way to stalemate doesn't require any big depth at all.

Jul-20-13  HSOL: tolengoy, Fischer did not qualify to the interzonal (in the world championship cycle which ended with Fischer winning the championships) by playing, he got Benko's spot in the interzonal.

Surely for the system to be fair, everyone, no matter nationality, should be allowed to enter any zonal?

Jul-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <alexmagnus> I partly agree with you. Yes, the evaluation functions currently in use seem to be biased towards the middle game. Some engines adjust their evaluation function and weighing factors in the endgame but perhaps not sufficiently. And the changes are made all at once rather than gradually so if the engine does not properly assess when it is in the middle game and when it is in the endgame (such as a queenless middlegame) then it might find itself with an evaluation function and a set of weighing factors that are not optimal for the situation that it is in.

But while engines can search deeper in endgame positions in the same amount of time due to the reduced number of pieces, they don't really search that much deeper. The reason is that during the middle game their search tree is pruned severely in order for the engines to be able to search deeper while in the endgame, with much reduced search trees, they do not need to prune it as severely. So the horizon effect also applies to the endgame and when compared with humans possibly even more severely, since due to the reduced number of pieces the human's "depth of search" in the endgame vs. the middle game is relatively much greater for the human than the engine.

What it does imply is that if the engine picks the top, say, 5 moves at each ply because of its search heuristics, that the chances for the engine missing the best move in the minimax sense is greater in the middle game than in the endgame. That I believe is one reason why engines occasionally fail to find the best move in a given position and why, in addition to their different evaluation functions, different engines often come up with different principal variations. That and, of course, different search heuristics.

Aug-17-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  visayanbraindoctor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIDE_...

FIDE Grand Prix 2012–2013 criteria for player qualification:

World Chess Championship 2012

Gelfand

Chess World Cup 2011

Svidler (withdrew)
Grischuk
Ivanchuk
Ponomariov

FIDE rating list (July 2011 and January 2012 average)

Radjabov (withdrew)
Karjakin
Nakamura
Topalov
Mamedyarov
Gashimov (withdrew)

FIDE President nominee

Fabiano Caruana

AGON nominees

Morozevich
Wang Hao
Leko
Domínguez
Giri
Kasimdzhanov

Replacements by rating

Adams
Kamsky
Bacrot

Not to sound like a killjoy, but qualification into the Grand Prix fundamentally is not by the old zonals type tournaments but by seeding.

Zonals has existed continuously since post WW2, but nowadays qualify only into the World Cup, whose 2-game KO rounds with quick game tie breakers leaves much of the players' fate in the fickle palms of good luck.

IMO the Grand Prix and World Cup function like a worse form of Interzonals.

Still hoping that FIDE would go back to the old zonals interzonals Candidates format.

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