< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 208 OF 208 ·
|Sep-04-13|| ||parmetd: Rogge and nok get it... not sure why it is so hard for everyone else. Time has value - high value - he placed a higher value obviously because he wants to use the time to prepare for Anand and thus no monetary incentive above the match's money was guaranteed to him. It is pretty simple really. Do I think if fide or someone else offerred 5 million guaranteed for Carlsen to play regardless of result that he would play? I do.|
|Sep-04-13|| ||Bureaucrat: <parmetd: Rogge and nok get it... not sure why it is so hard for everyone else.> Perhaps because you didn't say clearly that you were talking about a hypothetical fantasy prize fund.|
|Sep-05-13|| ||messachess: "Obviously no point for Anand or Carlsen to participate." Well, it's chess. It's fun. There's the point.|
|Sep-07-13|| ||cro777: FIDE has started bids for the Candidates Tournament 2014.|
Khanty-Mansiysk, Russia has already sent its bid and it will be reviewed during the FIDE Congress in Tallinn in October. The Bulgarian chess Federation will probably send its official bid as well.
One player (with a rating of at least 2725 in the FIDE rating list of 1st July 2013) will be nominated by the Organizer.
|Sep-07-13|| ||devere: " The World Cup is about playing for two spots in the Candidates. Obviously no point for Anand or Carlsen to participate."|
Also no point in Kramnik or Aronian participating, but they were required by FIDE rules to do so. Why not pass another silly rule and require the World Champion and challenger to also participate? There's no limit on silly rules, is there?
|Sep-08-13|| ||Blunderdome: <devere> There's a limit of five silly rules.|
|Sep-08-13|| ||badest: <devere: " The World Cup is about playing for two spots in the Candidates. Obviously no point for Anand or Carlsen to participate."|
Also no point in Kramnik or Aronian participating, but they were required by FIDE rules to do so. Why not pass another silly rule and require the World Champion and challenger to also participate? There's no limit on silly rules, is there?> Maybe this is triggered by the recent experience of Radja in the Candidates in London. (And it is still nice to see Kramnik and Aronian play)
|Sep-08-13|| ||alexmagnus: <Maybe this is triggered by the recent experience of Radja in the Candidates>|
Hm? Radja was a wildcard player in the Candidates. If there could be any reaction to his performance, it would be scrapping the wildcard spot for some other qualifier.
|Sep-08-13|| ||devere: "(And it is still nice to see Kramnik and Aronian play)"|
With Kramnik playing to help Karjakin qualify, the possibilities for corruption of the qualification process are obvious.
It would have been better if the two qualifiers from the World Cup were Andreikin and the winner of a playoff between Lagrave and Tomashevsky, and Kramnik and Aronian qualified strictly by rating. At least then Kramnik and Aronian would have been playing only for themselves, not to help third parties qualify. But even then, any players knocked out by Kramnik or Aronian would have cause for complaint.
The format of the world cup tournament is abominable!
|Sep-08-13|| ||Daisuki: <Blunderdome: <devere> There's a limit of five silly rules.>|
Does this include or not include the silly rule limiting the number of silly rules? ;p
|Sep-09-13|| ||perfidious: <Daisuki>: Yes-except when it doesn't!|
|Sep-09-13|| ||Karpova: <devere: With Kramnik playing to help Karjakin qualify, the possibilities for corruption of the qualification process are obvious.>|
An absurd accusation taken as a fact. As if Kramnik had not enough intrinsic motivation to win the event. The fact that he was obviously the strongest player participating becomes proof of his moral depravity. Should he have lost a match on purpose?
|Sep-09-13|| ||perfidious: <Karpova>: Kramnik, of course, committed the mortal sin of not having that most upright of aides, Silvio Danailov, in his corner.|
Now it falls to Kramnik to settle his karmic debt, else retribution will follow and eternal damnation will be his portion.
|Sep-10-13|| ||Karpova: <perfidious>
But there may be a way out for Kramnik as he only needed to reach the final to qualify via the World Cup.
So <devere>'s conspiracy theory
<Since Kramnik was under no pressure to do well, and was also motivated to help his friend Sergey Karjakin qualify by rating by qualifying himself through the World Cup instead of rating, it's no surprise that Kramnik played very well and won the World Cup.>* World Cup (2013)
<With Kramnik playing to help Karjakin qualify, the possibilities for corruption of the qualification process are obvious.> World Cup (2013)
is easily defeated as Kramnik needn't win the final and so it would have sufficed for him to allow fool's mate in 3 games of the final match.
* It's no surprise that he played well as he was under no pressure to do so!
|Sep-10-13|| ||perfidious: <Karpova>: On the topic of conspiracy theories, think Kramnik's father was on the grassy knoll in Dallas, alongside Woody Harrelson's father?|
|Sep-10-13|| ||OhioChessFan: Karmic Kramnik|
|Sep-11-13|| ||Karpova: <perfidious>
I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that Vlad was Woody's father anymore!
Kavalek quotes Volodya: <"I am not ashamed of my play here," Kramnik summed up his performance. "Pretty good chess, no blunders.">
Link: http://www.chessbase.com/Home/TabId... (Kavalek in 'The Huffington Post')
|Sep-15-13|| ||devere: "An absurd accusation taken as a fact. As if Kramnik had not enough intrinsic motivation to win the event. The fact that he was obviously the strongest player participating becomes proof of his moral depravity. Should he have lost a match on purpose?"|
Kramnik did nothing wrong, but FIDE's faulty qualification system makes wrong doing possible. Suppose as some clever person has already pointed out Kramnik qualifying in the world cup would have caused Topalev to qualify by rating? What do you think would have happened then? LOL
The world cup is an abominable mess that FIDE ought to overhaul.
|Sep-18-13|| ||visayanbraindoctor: Summary of Winners of FIDE successive Mini-Match KO Format Tournaments|
When it was called the FIDE World Chess Championship:
When it was called the FIDE World Cup:
|Sep-18-13|| ||visayanbraindoctor: Summary of how the top 10 seeds did in Chess World Cup 2013 terms of rating performance:|
+0.8 +0.8 -2.2 -2.2 -6.5 -1.5 = -10.8
+0.8 −4.2 +3.2 −1.8 −1.2 −1.2 +3.2 +3.2 −1.1 −1.1 = -0.2
+0.8 +0.8 −1.8 −1.8 −1.0 −1.0 +4.3 −0.7 +4.1 −0.9 −0.9 −0.9 +4.1 −0.9 −0.9 −0.9 = +2.4
+0.8 +0.8 +3.2 −1.8 −6.1 +3.9 = +0.8
+0.8 −4.2 −1.5 −1.5 −1.0 −1.0 −0.8 −0.8 = -10
+1.2 +1.2 +3.5 −1.5 +2.4 +2.4 −0.7 −5.7 = +2.8
+1.5 −3.5 −1.8 +3.2 +4.1 −0.9 −0.6 −0.6 = +1.4
−3.2 −3.2 +3.8 −6.2 +3.2 −1.8 +5.5 +0.5 −0.5 −5.5 = -7.4
+1.6 −3.4 −1.4 −1.4 −2.8 −2.8 −5.5 −0.5 = -16.2
+1.7 +1.7 +3.8 −1.2 −5.5 −0.5 = 0
|Sep-18-13|| ||visayanbraindoctor: Issues concerning the World Cup format:
2. Grischuk strategy.
3. Why use quick games to determine qualification for the classical title.
Instead of the Format of Consecutive Mini-Matches and Quick Game Tie Breakers, return to the
<Swiss System Tournament>,
<Two or three round robin tournaments>
from which top placers qualify into the Candidates.
In effect this is going back to the old Interzonals formats, although it does not necessarily mean abolishing the Grand Prix as an alternative way into the Candidates. The Grand Prix in effect acts as a seeding via rating and wild card system, given that is what sponsors and chess fans enamored with ratings want.
(Personally I would rather do without the Grand Prix.)
|Sep-18-13|| ||visayanbraindoctor: Critique Regarding Seeding Through Rating into the Candidates of 4 Top Rated Players And The World Cup 2013 <The Radjabov Scenario> |
(Also see http://www.fide.com/FIDE/handbook/r.... For Elo ratings, see the FIDE rating site.)
Average 33300/ 12 = 2775
Average: 33356/ 12 = 2779.57
Average: 33191/ 12 = 2765.91
Average: 33337/ 12 = 2778.08
The above data shows:
Karjakin 2779.57 > Radjabov 2778.08 > Caruana 2775 > Grischuk 2765.91
This indicates that if Aronian and Kramnik get into the finals of the World Cup, Karjakin and Radjabov would qualify via ratings. If only one of either Aronian or Kramnik makes it, then only Karjakin would qualify via ratings. If Karjakin and either Aronian or Kramnik finish at the top, then the one of latter two who would not qualify in the World Cup would still qualify via ratings and so would Radjabov.
I would like to point out a peculiarity of Raja's data. In the period November 2012 to April 2013, his ELO rating stayed the same at 2793. According to http://ratings.fide.com/hist.phtml?..., Raja did not play in classical competitive events from December 2012 to April 2013, or 5 months.
April 2013 No Games
March 2013 No Games
February 2013 No Games
January 2013 No Games
December 2012 No Games
During this time span his ELO rating stayed at a whopping 2793. http://ratings.fide.com/id.phtml?ev...
This certainly affected the final calculation of the average because one has to multiply 2793 by 6. If one looks at the other players, they were mostly active and their ratings had typical ups and downs, for the nearly half a year that Raja was not and was registering his ceiling 2793 rating for several consecutive months. I believe this artificially skewed his average to the right.
This implies that one possible reason that allowed Raja to retain a high ELO rating for such a long time, sufficient to make him a potential Candidate via the seeding via rating criterion, was his 'semi-retirement'. I would like to point this out because this is one way that the seeding via rating criterion can be manipulated so as to get into the Candidates in as safe a manner as possible. I would like to emphasize that Raja may not have done this intentionally; I have heard comments he has had personal problems.
|Sep-18-13|| ||visayanbraindoctor: Possible Solutions to the <Radjabov Scenario>|
Shelter417: Thinking about the whole qualification process for the next Candidates, I wonder if
1. <it would be best to wait a few months before selecting players based on rating.>
Think about it. If the two slots for rating weren't compiled until the END of 2013 (basically an average of each player's ratings this year), everyone would have had an incentive to do as well as they could in the World Cup or Grand Prix (I'm sure Aronian would have fought a bit harder had his place not been 100% assured). And that way people wouldn't be able to complain about situations such as Radjabov (sure, a player might still suffer a loss in form at the end of 2013 and still make the Candidates, but at least his performance from 18 months prior won't be a factor).
twinlark: Interesting idea. It is, isn't it. The <Radjabov scenario> should never arise again.
2. visayanbraindoctor: <I am also suggesting that FIDE makes it a requirement that a player that qualifies by rating has to play rated classical tournaments for at least 5 months of the allotted 6 months, and that no tournament should be spaced more than a month apart so that his rating is subject to changes every month. That would avoid the strategy of ceasing to play when a player suddenly gets an unusually high rating.>
|Sep-18-13|| ||twinlark: <visayanbraindoctor>|
<twinlark: Interesting idea. It is, isn't it. The <Radjabov scenario> should never arise again.>
Yes, it seems better to me. FIDE has demonstrated that it can make changes quickly if it needs to. In the wake of the requirement for Candidates qualifying events to include the World Cup and the Grand Prix, such a change would be indicated, particularly after the Radjabov scenario surfaced (wwith due to respect to an out of form grandmaster).
|Jan-25-15|| ||SirRuthless: Or you could just end all the nonsense and send the active top 10 over a 18 month period adding any wildcard slots or WorldCup/GP slots afterward and increasing the field size, then holding Candidates over two legs. No reason why a player who lurks around 7th-10th in the world should miss out on Candidates so there can be room for someone who lurks around 20-30th but got hot for one event. Candidates is a culmination of high level chess over time and should be treated as such.|
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