chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

MATCH STANDINGS
Battle of the Generations Match

Alexey Shirov5/6(+4 -0 =2)[view games]
Daniil Dubov1/6(+0 -4 =2)[view games]

 page 1 of 1; 6 games  PGN Download 
Game  ResultMoves Year Event/LocaleOpening
1. Shirov vs D Dubov ½-½34 2013 Battle of the GenerationsD45 Queen's Gambit Declined Semi-Slav
2. D Dubov vs Shirov 0-135 2013 Battle of the GenerationsD44 Queen's Gambit Declined Semi-Slav
3. Shirov vs D Dubov 1-041 2013 Battle of the GenerationsD44 Queen's Gambit Declined Semi-Slav
4. D Dubov vs Shirov 0-140 2013 Battle of the GenerationsA07 King's Indian Attack
5. Shirov vs D Dubov 1-034 2013 Battle of the GenerationsB48 Sicilian, Taimanov Variation
6. D Dubov vs Shirov ½-½32 2013 Battle of the GenerationsD45 Queen's Gambit Declined Semi-Slav
  REFINE SEARCH:   White wins (1-0) | Black wins (0-1) | Draws (1/2-1/2)  
 

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-08-13  rusich: <kingfu> All of the above-mentioned chess players, may be excluding Keres, were part of the Russian world, culture and mentality. Botvinnik claimed he was Russian. All were born in the Russian Empire or USSR. By ethnic roots, half had partly Russian ansestry and Russian mother tongue. There is many more players of approximatly their strength who were "purely" Russian by your terms. The same thing reffers to new appearing Ukrainian players that speak Russian as their mother tongue ( Ruslan Ponomaryov, Anton Korobov and many others).The difference in language and culture between Russians and Ukrainians is the same as between Englismen and Americans.
Dec-08-13  fgh: Shirov's rating performance in this match: 2909.
Dec-08-13  N0B0DY: Quite entertainung to watch. Fighting chess, w/o concessions.
Dec-08-13  smaragdus: There was no battle but Shirov managed to get 14.6 pints in 6 games so now his live rating is 2707.8. It is unnatural to see him below the 2700 mark.
Dec-08-13  Refused: Ouch, that was quite a beating for Dubov against a player who is, with all due respect, probably a bit past his prime. Shirov is still a great player, but clearly no Top 10 player anymore. Dubov must have hoped for some better result. On the bright side, if the objective still is to get Dubov away from his very solid play to a more universal style (as Shipov stated some time ago), then the learning experience could be invaluable for Dubov.
Dec-08-13  Kinghunt: <visayanbraindoctor: Yes I agree that Dubov should have avoided playing into Shirov's strength- tactical games.>

Depends on his goal. If Dubov only wanted to win the match, I agree with you. But if he wanted to use this as an opportunity to grow as a player, he made the right choice. The best way to improve is always to take on the best in their strongest style of play, even if it means you get knocked down a lot.

Dec-08-13  ozmikey: Tough beating for the youngster, but he shouldn't lose heart. If I remember rightly, Korchnoi won a similar match by a similar score against Jeroen Piket about twenty years ago.
Dec-08-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: Losing with dignity builds character. That's why I was rooting for Anand to beat Carlsen. I thought it would help MC, in the long run.
Dec-08-13  Jason Frost: <fgh: Dubov's gutless play at the last World Cup was obscene. It's nice to see him get beaten by such a margin here.>

Right, the former fide champion was playing some Tal-esque chess if only he didn't run into the <gutless> 17 year old playing for by far the most money he's every played before in his life.

Dec-09-13  peristilo: HeMateMe, Magnus is not the one who needs help, but the other players, :-)
Dec-09-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: <The difference in language and culture between Russians and Ukrainians is the same as between Englismen and Americans.>

Culture - maybe. Language - not sure. Russians barely understand spoken Ukrainian (but Ukrainians understand spoken Russian!).

Dec-09-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: Even more, Russian is not even the closest language there is to Ukrainian, in terms of vocabulary - it takes only <4th> place there (behind Belorussian, Polish and Slovak).
Dec-09-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: <peristilo> He certainly needs no help. But, one worries about a young player who seems to have never had to work hard to make it to the top. You wonder about an abnormal personality, about a player who could end up like Fischer or Morphy.

Of course he seems very happy and normal. I just think that it would help his career if, early on he got disappointed by another great player. Didn't happen.

Dec-09-13  Conrad93: < Even more, Russian is not even the closest language there is to Ukrainian, in terms of vocabulary - it takes only <4th> place there (behind Belorussian, Polish and Slovak).>

Linguistically it is very similar to Russian.

It belongs to the East Slavic group of Slavic languages, which includes Russian, Ukrainian, and Belarusian.

The difference between the two is only very slight.

A Russian could learn the language very quickly.

Dec-09-13  Conrad93: <Perhaps most of the Chess playing strength from the Soviet Union was not Russian. The Soviets were good at "borrowing" things. Tal - Latvia
Petrosian - Armenia
Botvinnik - Finland
Kasparov - Azerbaijan
Taimonov - Ukraine
Geller - Ukraine
Keres - Estonia
Bronstein - Ukraine

Even now the Ukraine is producing a lot of great Chess players. Anybody have any ideas why?>

I think you are confusing the U.S.S.R. with modern-day Russia.

Dec-09-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: historically haven't chunks of Finland been traded back and forth between Finland and Russia/USSR? Plenty of Russians have settled in Finland and kept speaking Russian.

If MB's parents were both white Russians, he's a Russian, and not a Finn.

Dec-10-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: <Conrad93> I myself speak both, but it's actually so that Belarus and Polish are much closer. My Polish friends understand Ukrainian without any adaptation phase, Russians need some half an hour to adapt.
Dec-10-13  devere: Dubov has lost a match to Shirov, so I guess he's now qualified to play Carlsen for the World Championship.
Dec-10-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Beholder: To say Naka is Japanese is only about 1/10th as idiotic as saying Botvinnik was a Finn. That's a new low even for cg's kibitzers.
Dec-10-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Beholder>: Lasker was born in what is now Poland, so by virtue of this logic, was he not a Pole?

Definitely bust-a-gut material.

Dec-10-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: <Lasker was born in what is now Poland, so by virtue of this logic, was he not a Pole?>

And Steinitz Czech :)

Dec-10-13  rusich: <Language - not sure. Russians barely understand spoken Ukrainian (but Ukrainians understand spoken Russian!)> I mean ukrainian literatural language ( that of Taras Schevcenko, whose ukrainian poetry I,being Russian, read without much problem). I don't say nothing about Western Ukraine whose language differs distinctly from that of Central, Eastern and Southern Ukraine.
Dec-10-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: I meant the same, standard Ukrainian. Which I learned at school (I lived in the Russian-speaking part of Ukraine at the ages 6 to 15, and I speak both languages fluently, better Russian). Standard <spoken> Ukrainian (that is, the language of Shevchenko, but spoken and not written - and quickly spoken, at normal speaking tempo) needs about half an hour time of adaptation to be understood by a Russian unfamiliar with the language.

Shevchenko, by the way, wrote in both languages - his entire prose was in Russian and the poetry half Russian half Ukrainian.

Dec-11-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  kingfu: I was not referring to Botvinnik the Fin. I was referring to the Soviet Union "borrowing" Finland, as well as Latvia, Estonia, Armenia and The Ukraine. Of course, Botvinnik embraced the Soviet Union. But notice how he referred to himself as Russian. That had to be a weird situation. When you have power and money, they will come. Ukrainian GM Karjakin has moved to Moscow because it appears the Ukraine is broke and in political turmoil. They make (and have made) a lot of great Chess players, though.
Dec-11-13  Refused: <rusich: <kingfu> All of the above-mentioned chess players, may be excluding Keres, were part of the Russian world, culture and mentality. Botvinnik claimed he was Russian. All were born in the Russian Empire or USSR. By ethnic roots, half had partly Russian ansestry and Russian mother tongue. There is many more players of approximatly their strength who were "purely" Russian by your terms. The same thing reffers to new appearing Ukrainian players that speak Russian as their mother tongue ( Ruslan Ponomaryov, Anton Korobov and many others).The difference in language and culture between Russians and Ukrainians is the same as between Englismen and Americans.>

Hum, I would rather compare it to Ireland-England.
But that's also not 100% accurate.

< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, totally anonymous, and 100% free--plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, or duplicating posts.
  3. No personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No posting personal information of members.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform an administrator.


NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific tournament and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, you might try the Kibitzer's Café.
Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
Spot an error? Please suggest your correction and help us eliminate database mistakes!


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | advertising | contact us
Copyright 2001-2017, Chessgames Services LLC