| page 1 of 2; games 1-25 of 30
|1. M Vachier-Lagrave vs Harikrishna
|| ||½-½||51||2014||Biel||A45 Queen's Pawn Game|
|2. Motylev vs R Wojtaszek
||0-1||40||2014||Biel||B52 Sicilian, Canal-Sokolsky (Rossolimo) Attack|
|3. Yifan Hou vs A Giri
||1-0||28||2014||Biel||B51 Sicilian, Canal-Sokolsky (Rossolimo) Attack|
|4. R Wojtaszek vs Yifan Hou
|| ||½-½||40||2014||Biel||D38 Queen's Gambit Declined, Ragozin Variation|
|5. Harikrishna vs A Giri
||1-0||41||2014||Biel||C50 Giuoco Piano|
|6. M Vachier-Lagrave vs Motylev
|| ||½-½||40||2014||Biel||D10 Queen's Gambit Declined Slav|
|7. Yifan Hou vs M Vachier-Lagrave
||0-1||63||2014||Biel||B51 Sicilian, Canal-Sokolsky (Rossolimo) Attack|
|8. Motylev vs Harikrishna
||1-0||43||2014||Biel||C67 Ruy Lopez|
|9. A Giri vs R Wojtaszek
||1-0||84||2014||Biel||B90 Sicilian, Najdorf|
|10. R Wojtaszek vs M Vachier-Lagrave
|| ||½-½||38||2014||Biel||E60 King's Indian Defense|
|11. A Giri vs Motylev
||1-0||53||2014||Biel||D12 Queen's Gambit Declined Slav|
|12. Yifan Hou vs Harikrishna
||½-½||69||2014||Biel||B18 Caro-Kann, Classical|
|13. Harikrishna vs R Wojtaszek
|| ||½-½||47||2014||Biel||B90 Sicilian, Najdorf|
|14. M Vachier-Lagrave vs A Giri
||1-0||61||2014||Biel||C67 Ruy Lopez|
|15. Motylev vs Yifan Hou
||½-½||41||2014||Biel||B48 Sicilian, Taimanov Variation|
|16. Harikrishna vs M Vachier-Lagrave
||½-½||40||2014||Biel||B90 Sicilian, Najdorf|
|17. R Wojtaszek vs Motylev
|| ||½-½||29||2014||Biel||D12 Queen's Gambit Declined Slav|
|18. A Giri vs Yifan Hou
||½-½||69||2014||Biel||B47 Sicilian, Taimanov (Bastrikov) Variation|
|19. Yifan Hou vs R Wojtaszek
||½-½||53||2014||Biel||A07 King's Indian Attack|
|20. Motylev vs M Vachier-Lagrave
||0-1||35||2014||Biel||B90 Sicilian, Najdorf|
|21. A Giri vs Harikrishna
||½-½||26||2014||Biel||E04 Catalan, Open, 5.Nf3|
|22. R Wojtaszek vs A Giri
|| ||½-½||50||2014||Biel||D31 Queen's Gambit Declined|
|23. M Vachier-Lagrave vs Yifan Hou
||½-½||41||2014||Biel||D38 Queen's Gambit Declined, Ragozin Variation|
|24. Harikrishna vs Motylev
|| ||½-½||29||2014||Biel||B18 Caro-Kann, Classical|
|25. Yifan Hou vs Motylev
||1-0||50||2014||Biel||B18 Caro-Kann, Classical|
| page 1 of 2; games 1-25 of 30
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 8 OF 9 ·
|Jul-24-14|| ||Strongest Force: I don't like Hou's long-range possibilities in round 10. She need to discover Fischer's notes on how to handle a dynamic sicilian. We all need those notes.|
|Jul-24-14|| ||jphamlore: <HeHateMe><Wavy> Maybe the decline has already begun:|
I count only 4 players born 1991 or later in the list of top 30: Caruana, Anish Giri, Wesley So, and Ding Liren. Of that group, I believe Giri and Ding Liren have demonstrated nothing that indicates they will ever become all that great. Besides Giri is apparently going to university soon and Ding Liren is trapped as China's #2 behind Wang Hao.
The post-Carlsen era other than Caruana is off to a pretty bad start. And just like my model would predict, Caruana is the one player who devoted himself to being a chess professional since age 12 including moving from his home country the United States to Europe to pursue better chess opportunities and foregoing a university education. Now just how many other chess prodigies are going to do that?
Computer chess engines allow greater independence of players to develop themselves but that might not actually be an advantage. Go has a long tradition of mentoring through schools founded by players, something chess only had while the Botvinnik school had Botvinnik himself supervising everything. I doubt any similar chess institution today can produce the equivalent of Karpov, Kasparov, and Kramnik.
|Jul-24-14|| ||jphamlore: And going down to the top 50 on the FIDE rankings list one gets LQL, who is trapped behind Wesley So's push at Polgar's chess center, and Richard Rapport. |
Contrary to appearances this may be one of the worst generations of young chess players ever considering the supposed depth of countries where they can come from now and the ability to play chess over the Internet.
|Jul-24-14|| ||Kanatahodets: Yep, unfortunately, Hou is going to lose the last game.|
|Jul-24-14|| ||Kanatahodets: <jphamlore: I doubt any similar chess institution today can produce the equivalent of Karpov, Kasparov, and Kramnik.> Not very consistent though; they already produced Carlsen, Caruana and Aronian. Magnus was coached by Adgestein, but say the truth it's not Botvinnik school. Magnus and Fabiano are mostly self-made.|
|Jul-24-14|| ||Kanatahodets: <Wavy: People are actually getting smarter and smarter as new generations come. I expect better top ten players after the generation of Carlsen.> I wouldn't regress like that. Firstly, the process, if it exists, is far from being linear. Secondly, I highly doubt that people are getting smarter even on average. And for sure it is wrong if we take the first quartile.|
|Jul-24-14|| ||jphamlore: Actually by chess standards and not mere generalities the chess of the young prodigies is degenerating in their choice of openings relative to previous generations.|
Young prodigies are certainly not learning defenses for Black such as the Nimzo-Indian any faster than did Botvinnik, Mikhail Tal, Bobby Fischer, or Karpov. Nor are they learning to open 1. d4 any faster.
Kasparov for example learned the open 1. d4 and play both sides of the Queen's Gambit Declined faster than the prodigies today.
|Jul-24-14|| ||Kanatahodets: <jphamlore: Actually by chess standards and not mere generalities the chess of the young prodigies is degenerating in their choice of openings relative to previous generations.
Young prodigies are certainly not learning defenses for Black such as the Nimzo-Indian any faster than did Botvinnik, Mikhail Tal, Bobby Fischer, or Karpov. Nor are they learning to open 1. d4 any faster.|
Kasparov for example learned the open 1. d4 and play both sides of the Queen's Gambit Declined faster than the prodigies today.> It's not bad to have a mentor like Botvinnik. But it is much better to figure out by yourself. Botvinnik school was a special school, a Soviet machine of producing chess players. Was it efficient? I have no idea. With numbers of chess players in the USSR and compare them with the West, I would say the efficiency of such training schools is questionable at best. West without any school managed to produce Fischer, Larsen, Andersen, Unziker, Miles etc. And consider that it came from the number of chess players hundreds times less than in the USSR.
|Jul-24-14|| ||jphamlore: <Kanatahodets: It's not bad to have a mentor like Botvinnik. But it is much better to figure out by yourself.>|
I think there's a big difference between the efficient guidance a mentor can provide so that one can figure things out versus trying to invent everything all over again by oneself.
In the Far East for the game of Go, my albeit extremely limited understanding is they have no problem at all with the idea of mentoring and schools to guide prodigies. It is chess that is the outlier due to Internet play and computer chess engines that can give players the illusion they can be independent and do things by themselves.
And yet ... Carlsen paid Kasparov for a whole year to train Carlsen, worked with Anand during Anand's defenses of his world championship, now uses Nielsen as his trainer. Caruana left his birth country of the United States at age 12 to play chess fulltime in Europe where he had access to better coaches and better events, normal time control events.
Compare their advancement to that of the Internet's golden child Nakamura who seems to have plateaued.
|Jul-24-14|| ||Octavia: <Given that she is 20 years old and probably 10 years from her prime and Polgar is nearing 40 and 10 years past it, I would assume she has more ambitious goals as well.> this kinda talk helps to keep the ageist prejudice alive! I know that statistics agree with yous but that's only because chessplayers are primed to believe it AND they then act on it. Apart from the self fullfilling prophecy there are other factors at work.|
But I wished people could believe that chess is an old man's game - which it is in terms of who plays chess more - old or young? & then we'd soon find that the old do better at chess.
|Jul-24-14|| ||frandie: <KKDEREK: who cares, blitz on ICC.>
The top guys according to elo have invested countless hours in the ICC. Obviously, the no. of games they played reflect the importance they attach to getting good rating in the website:|
Name <Current Rating> No. of Games
Carlsen <3525> 449
Aronian <3241> 624
Caruana <3389> 2320
Grischuk <3240> 1401
Nakamura <3301> 15306
Karjakin < 3560> 578
Anand <3189> 557
Topalov- afraid to play in the ICC- bad blitz player
La Grave <3254> 4314
Kramnik- afraid to play in the ICC- bad blitz player
Dominguez <3104> 2775
Wesley So has two handles:
- Wesley16- <3626 > 583
- Foster- <3604> 105
|Jul-24-14|| ||Gregor Samsa Mendel: Hou just resigned against Harikrishna:
|Jul-24-14|| ||frandie: Wesley leads the field with scores breaching the 3600 mark twice - i.e. for both of his handles.|
ICC rating is a much better indicator of blitz playing strength as it does not discriminate upon entries the way elo ranking does (i.e. favoring the perennial invitees to close tournaments- the pampered goldfishes.
|Jul-24-14|| ||john barleycorn: <frandie> you forgot <bogeyboy>'s idol (not Wesley So):|
44.217 (+26.988 / -15.942 / =1.287)
Who is the mysterious player?
hint #1: <pugobrain> admires him.
|Jul-24-14|| ||plang: <Wavy: < jphamlore: I predict the generation after Carlsen will be unexpectedly terrible.>|
People are actually getting smarter and smarter>
Smarter in what way? What are you basing this on? More educated? More street savvy?
|Jul-24-14|| ||Absentee: <Topalov- afraid to play in the ICC- bad blitz player >|
|Jul-24-14|| ||plang: <Octavia:this kinda talk helps to keep the ageist prejudice alive! I know that statistics agree with yous but that's only because chessplayers are primed to believe it AND they then act on it. Apart from the self fullfilling prophecy there are other factors at work.|
But I wished people could believe that chess is an old man's game - which it is in terms of who plays chess more - old or young? & then we'd soon find that the old do better at chess.>
If you have found a way to counteract the effects of aging on memory, stamina, alertness etc. can you let us in on the secret?
There are reasons why most chess players have peaked in their late 20s early 30s and, as you mentions, the statistics bear that out. To claim that most chess players skills diminish because they are led to believe they will.....well - give me a break
|Jul-24-14|| ||jphamlore: A simple look at the FIDE ratings lists explodes the myth that there is any signs of a post-Carlsen generation:|
All indications are that there is an ALARMING lack of true top level talent for chess players born 1991 or later with a few notable exceptions at the very top such as Caruana. Go past rank 30 and tell me ANY of those players born after 1991 have that bright a future in chess.
If there was such a bright collection of future players waiting in the wings one would expect there to be MORE and not FEWER of them as one goes down the ratings list. Instead one finds an uncanny valley where a couple like Caruana who have devoted their life to chess since age 12 rise to the very top.
|Jul-24-14|| ||kia0708: <And yet, Carlsen is a millionaire, the other top ten all earn six figures.>|
with so much money on the table
maybe the sleeping giant, USA,
will wake up and step out of the
|Jul-24-14|| ||Absentee: <Octavia:But I wished people could believe that chess is an old man's game - which it is in terms of who plays chess more - old or young? & then we'd soon find that the old do better at chess.>|
Doesn't this already answer the question?
|Jul-24-14|| ||SimonWebbsTiger: maybe not pertinent, I make a point of saying chess is a game for the Young, boys and girls.|
The idea chess is a nerdy board game, something played by grandpas in smoke filled rooms, is one I attack.
Simple fact is the greats of the game were good when aged 10-18, before being brilliant/genius/maestro in adulthood. Too few girls, though, attaining the heights, and a smaller base from childhood.
|Jul-24-14|| ||vkk: I think caruana is of the carlsen generation|
|Jul-24-14|| ||jphamlore: <vkk: I think caruana is of the carlsen generation> I would agree with that which would make the relative lack of truly outstanding young talent post-Carlsen generation even more apparent.|
|Jul-24-14|| ||Kanatahodets: <kia0708: <And yet, Carlsen is a millionaire, the other top ten all earn six figures.>
with so much money on the table
maybe the sleeping giant, USA,
will wake up and step out of the
mediocricity> no, no, no way. If you work in trade - you get much more. It's a safe business; go to an investment bank and you have your bonus payments. Recently I've met a world level scientist; he said, I regret that I went to science. My college buddies all make ten times more than I.
|Jul-24-14|| ||MarkFinan: Pick 3 paid off today at 20-1 or something but I don't understand why the elite, the cream of the crop don't get invited to a tournament like this instead of 2770's.
I don't follow these tournaments like people who come here for chess only (special mention to <notyetagm>! That guy is chess chess chess chess and current chess, lol) but it's disappointing to see 4-5 tournaments a year from Carlsen Anand et al. #Justsaying|
Well other sportsmen who *really* shatter their bodies twice a week still perform right at the top for 9 months a year ,so why can't chess players do at least one tournament per month?? It can't be money because they get paid well in this day and age.
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 8 OF 9 ·
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