< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2930 OF 4912 ·
|Jan-19-08|| ||be3292: The Jimmy Hoffa and Elvis spotters are already busy fashioning urban ledgend Bobby sightings for 2008. Why, I was in Starbucks just today, and ... yep, you got it. Up near Flint, Michigan. He still had his beard. Love that cat!|
|Jan-20-08|| ||WannaBe: That's nothing! Seen that new ESPN commercial?! The guy in that commercial (supposedly, a fisherman) looks just like Bobby!!|
And I ain't Odd Lying!
|Jan-20-08|| ||cu8sfan: And just wait for people claiming they played blitz against him on ICC...|
|Jan-20-08|| ||SwitchingQuylthulg: <Phony Benoni: Bah, humbug. Coincidences happen, and hidden meanings generally have nothing to do with it.>|
Just pointed it out. That's not allowed? Coincidences certainly do happen - and even when things that happen aren't coincidental, it doesn't have to mean anything. Ever noticed that Jan Koetz and Botvinnik have a similar opening repertoire? Is that just a coincidence?
|Jan-20-08|| ||Richard Taylor: <whiskeyrebel: Richard Taylor, inspired posts this morning..bravo. I've personally had a hard time holding my silence in the face of so many posts on this site and others involving Bobby and other WC's in "heaven" in friendly combat over the board. I don't think Bobby would have expected anything like that in the afterlife. I think he would have been quite happy with a nice, peaceful, cold grave and scores of immortal games left behind as his calling card. It's interesting that Bobby was one of the reasons you hung it up for a time! Personally, his involvement with the wack job church in L.A. in the early 70's contributed more to my becoming convinced my boyhood "hero" had serious problems as opposed to his living as a recluse or any political statements he made many years later. I'm not sure if Fischer's Mother was very responsible or not. I always have felt he needed a good talking to. As a father, what do you think?>|
Thanks!! <Whiskeyrebel> There is no doubt about Fischer immense ability (I have revised my view of Fischer not because he died - but in part, as death does "wonderfully concentrate the mind") and his great personality especially as a youngster - I was in fact jealous of him! But he wasn't the reason I stopped chess (temporarily I do go the bug again stopped for some years then started again!) just one more reason...but when I was playing chess as a youngster Tal was the World Champion and my hero. I also played Alekhine's games and so on. I have beside me a book that very few people in the world will have - it is Fischer's first book - it has my father's signature inside it so it is not for sale - it is "Bobby Fischer's Games of Chess" by Bobby Fischer, Museum Press, London 1959. First Edition. First printing. The dust jacket has photo of Fischer at about the age of 15 looking at chess board. He annotates the US Championship in N.Y. December 17, 1957, to January 78, 1958. There is a forward by Golombek and Fischer describes his early life and chess career up to that time. The games are fascinating -I had only played a few over but was looking at some last night I saved some to WINBOARD - his tactics are great and his attacks and he already at 15 has a great grasp of strategy and endings. He won that championship when he was 14. The diagrams are unique. There are not many copies of this first book by Fischer. My father bought it about 1961. I may have been playing for about 3 years then. (There are, as well as his "The Game of the Century" (Hans Kmoch's label) v Byrne - he played 2 actually - but he was only 13 when he played that one!!) also all his games of the Interzonal at Portoroz - unannotated - I played over his win over Larsen - brilliant!! Larsen essayed a Dragon.)
Later I got quite a number of books by and about Fisher more recently "The Wandering King" (picked up for $2.50 (!!) at The Warehouse book sale!!) That is quiet fascinating. It is biographical - Seirawan talks about how he wanted to interview Fischer when he was playing Spassky in Yugoslavia (he got to him BTW) and Korchnoi got angry and after few words refused to talk about Fischer - Kasparov wont talk about him at all - I mean he will talk about the Chess playing Fischer but not the anti-Semite who always referred to Kasparov as Weinstein (his father's name I think).
Fischer's father was not Fischer - his real father was a Hungarian Jew, a physicist working for the Manhatten - project and his mother was a Jewish intellectual and a radical. I would be interested to know more about her and his sister.
|Jan-20-08|| ||Richard Taylor: I can understand many of Fischer attitudes (although I don't agree with his rather direct conclusions and rash statements) (Fischer has this affect - one feels the presence of chess god - but there is all this bitterness - it is a childishness, covering a deep sadness, really) Timman says that many of Fischer's complaints(!) actually make (some - or sometimes a lot of) sense and that there was a side to Fischer that was very likable - he was writing a book about him....I think his atements about 9/11 can be dismissed I have said worse than Fischer (Stockhausen said 9/11 was a great work of art for the 21st Cent!! He is also dead BTW) heard much worse (Alekhine worked with Nazis, he was a White Russian and very right wing - Fischer was just very mixed up - he read some fabricated books similar to The Protocols of Zion which are ugly and stupid fabrications) ...but as to 9/11... The US Govt is not liked throughout the world (and Fischer felt "wronged" - perhaps with some justification - (Americans are seen as arrogant - not by everyone of course!) - they are simultaneously admired and hated! We are just starting to take Chinese seriously let's face it they sound and look very funny when they talk!!)) it is sad to say (but true), wherever they are discussed (not the Chinese!!)- they have replaced the British as 'the leaders' - they are the new and very widely hated Imperialists (Economic and military -deep down Fischer could see that - but his reactions were very personal (O me miserum!) - he was an individualist) - a product of the hugely creative but alienated and sometimes very stupid and energetic wasteful exhilarating crazy bad good dynamic sexy uncultured but also very cultured & I contradict myself well then I do wildly ("are wild about Wilde?") contradict myself and leading the charge in all the arts and much science and tech and Capitalist America* and that is what happens (all is not well in the State of Denmark) - it was matter of time only before the US was attacked on the mainland...but Fischer's politics were circled around himself. And slowly the logical aspect left him. |
In the early days he did great things for Chess - he also had very strong emotions and a powerful heart and great integrity. He refused offers to advertise products if he didn't think the product was good or it was harmful - he was right -so he kind of paid his own way - considering his lack of education and his concentration only on Chess he was a remarkable young man. But, deeply down, he suffered.
|Jan-20-08|| ||Richard Taylor: I never "talked" to my children as such (I mean I _talked_ a lot to them, but I didn't give them much "instruction" or "advice" one just lives and answers questions and so on - it is not what people say it is how they act that counts mostly) - but then my daughters (today they don't listen to any pronouncements I have they are very individualistic and strong willed ! They can be my biggest critics - don't worry about that - I argue with everyone, but they shut me down if I rave , and very fast!!!!! ) they just flew into school work and are doing well in music and did well at school - my son had great trouble academically and cant - still cant do the x tables or calculate anything with numbers. He has had quite lot of trouble and sadness in his life (the police smashed out his eye) with peers and as he was relatively slow he was picked on at school and so on - he was caught stealing and at school was in fights - he was knocked out once...he suffered a lot (the schools here are terrible - especially more so in the "rich" areas" ) - I never "talked to him" as such (we talk a lot and of course we had many many conversations) - I tried - but a father can only lead by example - perhaps I wasn't a good example but overall we parents did as best we could - there are some things one cannot control.|
Fischer's mother, who I feel was probably very responsible, probably had a very tough life raising 2 children on her own. All mothers love their children deeply - and hopefully all fathers. But there are or were other facts of Fischer early life we cant know. Perhaps he needed a father - a good father. He had a step father - he needed more love as child.
Given his "crankiness" he still achieved an immense amount - he invented the methods of variable times and ardently advocated excellent playing conditions and payments for prizes - Spassky said to us when he gave a simul (1986 or so? I have the score sheet signed by Spaasky here of my game) - that he "loved" Fischer - his great ability was his courage, strength and his individuality - his great passion for Chess - his drive.
If Hillary and Hone Tuwhare are great NZrs he was a great American - Hone the poet and communist I knew - he died the other day - Hillary I didn't know. What Fischer lacked enough was saving humour and a tolerance to others...Pal Benko still valued him a lot even though they had a fight once - but Benko stood aside for Fischer so he could make his way to the World Champ's.
We need a very great and deeply researched chess-biography of Fischer - with the Chess and personal aspects intertwined.
From a chess point of view he was incredible - he changed chess immensely, and Tal and many of the Russians admired him, if they teased him (it was cruel and stupid if they did)for not knowing who Goethe was etc) - perhaps the greatest Chess genius ever. As I say, despite all the crankiness, and Eric Schiller is right on this, we must leave that for now, love and study his many marvelous games; the US and the World can be proud that they either produced or had as a countryman or lived in the time of Fischer.
|Jan-20-08|| ||almighty84: <<Phony Benoni> No doubt. We could also start listing all the similarities between Capablanca and Alekhine, who both died at 53, or Petrosian and Tal, who both died at 55.|
For that matter, Tal also died of kidney failure, so we could start listing all the similarities in personal habits between him and Fischer.
Bah, humbug. Coincidences happen, and hidden meanings generally have nothing to do with it.>
I'll already write these coincedences down for next years holiday quiz!
|Jan-20-08|| ||whiskeyrebel: Richard Taylor, I think the key to understanding Fischer is finding balance in the backwash of his positive and negative attributes. You've done as good a job as I've observed over the last couple days.Personally, I ( like quite a few others apparently ) have a lot to come to grips with. When I was a kid and still a "promising" young player I'd be alternately taunted or applauded with Fischer's name by chess mentors..and morons on the American school yard. He's like a sliver that has dug itself deep into my skin. Interestingly enough as I have put Fischer behind me over the years my appreciation for many of the U.S.S.R. players he battled with has grown. Tal, Bronstein, Petrosian and of course Boris have filled the gap. That's a good thing of course. On the day of his death I realized a lifelong habit of mine can be attributed though to wacky Bobby. I'm a combination night owl/lone wolf. Staying up all night and studying or creating with maybe a bit of music in the background is something I picked up from reading accounts of his nocturnal chess work. I'm doing it right now. I can thoroughly understand why he wanted to be left alone to work in solitude and keep his own hours.It's become my way too.|
|Jan-20-08|| ||technical draw: It has come to my attention that some users don't like (or even despise my avatar). Also some think that I make "silly" comments. I did not know this. For those that do not like my avatar please by all means suggest and an avatar more to your liking and I will gladly change it. I will also change my comments to meet your expectations. Please feel free to let me know your likes and dislikes about my persona and I will make all necessary corrections. Remember I am here to please and to make everyones experience here at chessgames an unforgettable event. Thank You all...TD...By the way my ELO is 2795........|
|Jan-20-08|| ||frank124c: Bobby Fischer was ridiculed because he was the only man who had the nerve to stand up and say, "The King has no clothes!"|
|Jan-20-08|| ||2021: Kasparyan, 1962
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White to play and draw.
|Jan-20-08|| ||2021: T. Taverner, 1881
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White to play and mate in two.
|Jan-20-08|| ||2021: Thomas Rayner Dawson, 1947
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Serieshelpmate in 17 moves (black makes the moves, white mates).
|Jan-20-08|| ||greatdane: <Richard Taylor> Once again it's a pleasure reading your life-wise and chess-clever comments! <As a teenager I was also very asocial but I read more widely than Fischer - so at the time I thought he was some kind of freak - a kind of "idiot savant" - and I was jealous - Chess was everything for me as I was hopeless at sports and very hopeless with girls and socially very inept and so on and I had hoped I might be a great chess player.> I personally can recognize that pattern of life as well. You know, some of us encounter walks of life that are not always easy, not always happy, not always like life's supposed to be. Some of us faced with that different walk of life are wasted from the outset - never acheiving anything, never having succes with anything. Some - like Fischer - find out that they have have outstanding capabilities in a certain field, but given their different walk of life they never reconcile it with a normal human life. They turn strange, doing strange things. Others in a combination of chance and their own effort succeed in living an almost normal life, at lest to the appearance of others, but always knowing that thay are not quite the same. And therefore also having easier to understand that others less fortunate, but also more genial, ended up with a life twisted, strange, yet such a life which they through their capability and personality ended up creating larger than life. I don't know if this makes sense to anybody, and yet maybe, maybe it made sense to a whole nation - although populationwise a small nation - Iceland, the Island of sagas, mists and twisted fates - that small, great nation which reached out to Fischer and gave him a refuge when he had lost all sense of normal life, the normal life that millions are living every day. And which will be as quickly forgotten. Which Fischer will not. R.I.P twisted, genial soul, you great beacon in the immortal Kingdom of chess. A human being, extraordinary, heaven or hell ? Both. But now at rest. Thanks Richard for inspiring these crazy words, I'm not as faithfull as you to CG kibitz, but - still I hang on. And wake up at moments like this. Which are solemn, unique, a great era passed, a great, twisted Chessmaster passed. Thanks also to CG for making available a community where thoughts can be shared on such great historic moments.|
|Jan-20-08|| ||Richard Taylor: <Greattdane> This is beautiful writing. It is as near to the truth of things as I can come.|
The strange thing was that at first I thought that I wouldn't have been affected by Fischer's death; but I agree also with the insights of <Whiskeyrebel> also wonderfully written -that Fischer is like a "sliver" inside (us -him ) remember Pound - there are similarities...a great American (great person, generous to many of his peers, a genius, writing his Cantos written for 40 years(!), looking to the East (but to the past-present unlike Fischer) - but very flawed like us all) - self exiled - hating "usury" and Jews and attacking the US (during the war from Italy!) but, while he was deeply reviled by many: in the end getting support from many people, , including Jewish writers!! Jewish people who were his greatest fans and realised he was just a crank - not a Hitler...quite... Fischer went on similar path so to speak - much of what he said - heard by people was very terrible - but he was deeply troubled I think - he needed some wake up - I don't know what. He - as a Chess player was extraordinary we all know...
I just a played over a game where he beat ex World Champion Smyslov with his Najdorf in 1959! (He was 16 then.)
Great game - and I love Smyslov's chess - very creative also - perhaps we could look to Smyslov who was a more "rounded" person, a singer also...but Fischer - it is a deep paradox - but we need Fischers.
|Jan-20-08|| ||be3292: <greatdane> <Richard Taylor> <Whiskeyrebel> Thanks, guys. I'm also a nocturnal isolate, processing deep feelings of loss (and anger -- he could have at least surrendered his militant singularity long enough to accept medical help!); your candid sharing helps. I guess I really identify with Mr. Fischer's quirkiness, but cannot boast the genius he displayed over the board. My most effective strategy today when looking reality in the eye is to deny it. Losing the champ requires piecemeal assimilation, slow digestion. Today, at a Starbucks where I'm already seen as a troublemaker, I was given the bum's rush (again!) after rolling on the floor laughing at Bobby reading Pound to Smyslov and Tal while chastising both for showing up in public without halos. The baristas said I was hallucinating. What do they know about denial and grief? Ah, well. The images will fade. Their purpose will have been served. History will prevail. It was probably tough for a select group of camp followers to deal with the passing of Morphy, too. Pax.|
|Jan-21-08|| ||Richard Taylor: <be3292> Good post - Starbucks is everywhere! I dont work as such these days - have had about 60 jobs in my life - but I am too much of - idontkwo I probably couldn't keek a normal job ("Do I _look_ normal?!!" (Danny de Vito -when being ticketed for being on a disabled parking space!) - actually though at my last "main job" - I was an Eng. Tech for The NZ Electtricity Division (now a private company) - and there I kept my nose clean - but in some environments it is hard to get on - I did work in my friend's bookshop -actually I now dabble in books ...I am on wwww.abebooks.com as Aspect Books.|
Hang in there mate!!
|Jan-21-08|| ||Richard Taylor: <cu8sfan: And just wait for people claiming they played blitz against him on ICC...> Not Fischer but I played (on WCN) against Seirawan, Ulf Andersson, a few IMs and I drew once with Susan Polgar! (But that was in the Master Challenge, I lost the next 2 games against her I think) - actually I always lost to Larry Christiansen - he was so good at 3 minute chess he used to sacrifice queen for two pawns and still win against 1700+ players!! One time though I checkmated a GM - lol - he must have been tired or drunk!|
|Jan-21-08|| ||Richard Taylor: <Cell Phone Tragedy> |
I'm in a chess tournament and in section one of leaders was part through a game and his cell phone went off and he lost his game - a tragedy as he was probably on the road to winning the tournament - he may still do so - but losing like that doesn't help. Tough rule that is... it happened to Ponamariov I believe.
|Jan-21-08|| ||Tactic101: Does anyone know a good way to continue from this position? It had turned up in one of the correspondance games I was playing on Redhotpawn and I got into some trouble here (game still going on, but many moves after this juncture). I'm playing black. Move 6 was a surprise as everyone I've played has always played Bb5+.|
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Na5 6. d3 h6 7. Nf3
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Some future advice would be handy so I don't run into this problem again.
|Jan-21-08|| ||nanobrain: <tactic101> grab his c4 bishop, put your bishop at d6 and castle. After this, you have a bishop pair, he has doubled pawns and your king is safe from any tactics along the e file.|
|Jan-21-08|| ||gus inn: <Tactic101> I have no board in front of me - but 7.-e4 does look quite good for Black IMO.|
|Jan-21-08|| ||cyruslaihy: <tactic 11> 6d3 is not a novelty, i played it myself as the standard response in 2006 after i saw one of morphy's game.
my advice is not to take white's d pawn. from your diagram, i suggest e4, disturbing the posing of the pieces. white is going to run into trouble after 7 Qe2 Nxc4 8 dxc4 Bc5 9 any Bg4, black has fair attacking chances (i've been the victim before as white, but i can't find the game)|
below is a tournament game, but black is apparently shocked and screwed up. not much of a reference, but you might want to see how black could go wrong. by the way, would you be able to post your whole game?
(45) Cyrus,LAI - Jonathan,CHAN [C58]
Junior chess championship 06 (3), 11.11.2006
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5 6.d3 Nxd5 7.Qf3 Be6 8.Nxe6 fxe6 9.Qh5+ g6 10.Qxe5 Rg8 11.Qxe6+ Ne7 12.Qf7+ Kd7 13.Qe6+ Ke8 14.0–0 Nxc4 15.Qxc4 Qd5 16.Qa4+ c6 17.Nc3 Qh5 18.Bf4 g5 19.Bg3 Nf5 20.Rfe1+ Kd7 21.Qb3 Be7 22.Qxb7+ Ke8 23.Qxa8+ Kf7 24.Qxa7 Re8 25.Qd7 Qg6 26.Ne4 h5 27.h3 Kf8 28.a4 g4 29.hxg4 Qxg4 30.Nf6 1–0
|Jan-21-08|| ||Tactic101: Thanks for the help.
Just to note, I had played in my game h6, Nf3, e4 (not really sure whether this was the best way of going through the mess I was in), but he responded with Ne5. This seems to be a potent move. I don't like leaving large holes in my opening play if I can help it, so what would be advisable here?
God, I hate opening theory...
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Deep Fritz 13