chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

(If you register a free account you won't see all these ads!)
Howard Staunton vs Bernhard Horwitz
"Retreating to Advance" (game of the day Jan-29-2009)
London (1851), London ENG, rd 2, Jun-??
English Opening: Agincourt Defense (A13)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

Click Here to play Guess-the-Move
Given 20 times; par: 89 [what's this?]

Annotations by Raymond Keene.      [406 more games annotated by Keene]

NOTE: You are using our new chess viewer, "Olga." For more info see the Olga Quickstart Guide. You can switch back to the old viewer (pgn4web) from the pulldown menu below. If you have questions or suggestions see our Olga chessforum.

explore this opening
find similar games 35 more Staunton/Horwitz games
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: If you cannot see the game above, try switching to the viewer Olga.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
    [help]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-29-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  ray keene: there is one sense in which applying computer analysis to such pre computer games is of academic interest only-i have played games where the psychological impact of a move has caused the opponent to collapse-where perhaps the optimal move according to a computer might have complicated things and encouraged the opponent to play on--

stauntons ng1 in this game is on a par with nimzos sublime retreat nh1 v rubinstein at dresden 1926-i am not sure a computer wd have have approved of either move-thats what helps to elevate chess to an art form and a struggle , beyond being just a hyped up crossword puzzle!

Jan-29-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: A great example of what was called "trigger chess". Once Staunton advanced after the retreat,the opponent's position was "shot".
Jan-29-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Marmot PFL: Staunton's deployment here is very sound with fair potential to attack later. The same setup with black is good against the Closed Sicilian.
Jan-29-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <arnaud1959: After seeing a game like this one I would say that yesterday's champions are as strong as today's ones.>

I would say they're utter fish. Horwitz's opening is unworthy of a modern C-player.

OK, OK, I am exaggerating, but I think that is closer to the truth than saying Staunton and Horwitz are as strong as Anand and Aronian.

As for the computer preferring f5 to Ng1, I wouldn't make much of it. White is winning either way. A computer's value is more in judging moves which tip the value of the position in one direction or the other.

Staunton's play here was positionally far ahead of its time. But there is no hiding the fact that this is not a well-played game by modern standards. Very few games in the mid-19th century were.

Jan-29-09  laskereshevsky: <Jun-29-08 FSR:> <<....Fischer wrote..."Staunton was the most profound opening analyst of all time.....where Morphy and Steinitz rejected the fianchetto, Staunton embraced it.....">>

<Jan-29-09 ray keene:> <<....Stauntons ♘g1 in this game is on a par with nimzos sublime retreat ♘h1 v rubinstein at dresden 1926...>>

Same thought by myside....

Jan-29-09  WhiteRook48: they say that to advance you must retreat... great game by Staunton
Jan-29-09  MrBlueLake: This game is a good example of a "master v amateur". Thanks to everybody who commented or analysed.
Jan-29-09  Dr. J: Could someone refute 33 ... Rxf6 35 exf6 cxd4 36 fxg7 c5 please?
Jan-30-09  nescio: <Dr. J: Could someone refute 33 ... Rxf6 35 exf6 cxd4 36 fxg7 c5 please?> Why do you want it refuted? It isn't a bad idea and the position after 36...c5 looks allright for Black. White may prefer 36.Nxd4 (instead of 36.fxg7) Ne8 37.Nxc6 with attacking chances.
Feb-02-09  peirce: There are some details i would
like to check .

45 Be5 is not a mistake
I mean an illegal move but
it doesn t work due to tempi.
The move is made in order to
decoy the Black Queen , right?
So that White can deliver mate.
But Black has still the way to
bring the Queen to D7 and to
defend the g7 square.

46 B*g6 is not legal:
there is nothing to capture on g6.

Feb-19-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <pierce> There is a black pawn on g6 that the bishop captures on the 46th move. If the pawn on h7 retakes, then Qh8 is mate. That was the purpose of 45. Be5.
Jul-26-09  WhiteRook48: to advance you must retreat!
Jul-27-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Knight13: <whiteshark: Nice finish. For the rest I think it was more Horwitz' weak play than Staunton' strong one.> Staunton had a plan all along: place the bishops in double-flank position, blow up the center, and then attack the Black king.

And what was Horwitz's plan?

May-19-10  ariel el luchador: Decir que Stauton fue uno de los más grandes jugadores de todos los tiempos me parece una exageración el uso de los fianchetos no era desconocidos en el siglo XIX si bien se prefería otras cosas, Stauton se adelantó en algunas cosas a su tiempo pero no era más que Anderssen quien le ganó facilmente en Londres de 1851 y mucho menos que Morfi a quien siempre le escapó , no era mal analista ,posiblemente el aleman bledow de la misma época jugaba mejor knith 13 tiene razón Horwitz jugó sin plan
Mar-31-11  LIFE Master AJ: Saw Keene's FB and twitter on this game ... thought I should take a look at it.

New appreciation for Staunton, whom Bobby Fischer said was the "first player to play positional chess."

Mar-31-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  ray keene: thanks <aj> your comments always appreciated-did you see i also put up a game you had annotated on the times twitter site
Mar-31-11  LIFE Master AJ: No - missed that ... will go look now.
Mar-31-11  LIFE Master AJ: OK, feeling kind of stupid now. Looked at a whole page (or two), ran through several of the CG-dot-com games.

Still have no clue which one you referred to (above).

Apr-01-11  LIFE Master AJ: Reminder - Fischer once did a list of 10 of the greatest chess players of all time, I am pretty sure that Staunton was on one of them.
May-05-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <LIFE Master AJ: Reminder - Fischer once did a list of 10 of the greatest chess players of all time, I am pretty sure that Staunton was on one of them.>

The hell you say.

Nov-15-11  AnalyzeThis: The Life Master is correct about Fischer putting Staunton on his list of top 10.
Apr-17-12  Llawdogg: Nice game, nice finish.
Mar-12-13  hyperactivemodernist: Amazingly modern game. Staunton seemed to have an understanding of positional chess on a level that wasn't commonplace until the 20th century.
Nov-29-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  RookFile: Black got murdered on the dark squares in this game.
Nov-29-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <RookFile: Black got murdered on the dark squares in this game.>

It wasn't murder, it was suicide.

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 3)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, totally anonymous, and 100% free--plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, or duplicating posts.
  3. No personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No posting personal information of members.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform an administrator.


NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, you might try the Kibitzer's Café.
Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
Spot an error? Please submit a correction slip and help us eliminate database mistakes!
This game is type: CLASSICAL (Disagree? Please submit a correction slip.)

Featured in the Following Game Collections [what is this?]
All kinds of English
by Saniyat24
The attacking retreat...(GOTD)
from Collections in Idleness 6 Compiled by xajik by fredthebear
shakman's favorite games - 2
by shakman
Aiming at two ranks
from Esoterica by sevenseaman
Staunton at his prime
from chess strategems vi - under construction by gauer
The Dynamic English
by goal10guy
Noted-n-Notable-Games of Morphy-n-Staunton
by saveyougod
481
from 500 Master Games of Chess III (part 2) by alachabre
English Annotated
by Gmonster
English Opening: Agincourt Def (A13) 1-0 Notes by Ray Keene
from England Speaks to Fredthebear by fredthebear
p. 6
from Dynamic English by DanBoyle
My Favorite Games
by swarmoflocusts
Aiming at two ranks
from Esoterica by trh6upsz
Retreating to advance
from Positional masterpieces by arsen387
early games II
by wwall
Staunton as White - 12/4 2006!
from Greatest Games of the Greatest Players by trumvirvel
Tullius' favorite games
by Tullius
Immortal Games
by frogmanjones
London 1851, 2nd knockout round
from History Of Chess Part I by Olanovich
10.9% - 20.0%
from Blunderchecked games I by nimh
plus 31 more collections (not shown)


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | advertising | contact us
Copyright 2001-2017, Chessgames Services LLC