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Wilhelm Steinitz vs Augustus Mongredien
"Augustus, seize her!" (game of the day Aug-14-2008)
London (1862)
Scandinavian Defense: Ilundain Variation (B01)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Given 113 times; par: 45 [what's this?]

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sac: 17.fxe5 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-27-08  pkaragianis: Kenkaku your faster win does not work. After 20. ...Kh8 21. Qh7# is impossible due to the pin on the white king.
May-27-08  RookFile: That's hilarious, it brings back memories of John Nunn 'correcting' Fischer with a matting attack that left his king in check during the sequence.
May-27-08  MichAdams: I believe it was Graham Burgess who found the 'mate', but that Nunn failed in his editor's job to check it.
Jun-06-08  abstraction: Haven't read the analyses AJ refers to, but at a glance 15. ... Nxe5 looks better for black than the text.
Aug-14-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: A wild game.

A word on the opening. 3. ... Qxd8 has earned the nickname "the banker". Black loses a tempo, but in return he argues that an exchange of central pawns has stopped white from building a strong centre.

The move 3. Nc3 also has its drawbacks. If white continues with d4 at some stage, he may want to bolster that pawn with c3 or advance c4 to put two pawns abreast in the centre. But the Nc3 is standing in the way of either pawn move, so white often has to move that knight anyway. And that gives the tempo back.

"The Banker" is not an opening that thrills the soul, but it is a relatively safe way to play for an easier life if you don't mind a draw. It can be particularly useful against aggressive players or book experts.

As for the game itself - mind-boggling complications after Rxh7. Steinitz probably didn't need to set off the fireworks as he had a positional advantage anyway. But it's fun and he no doubt had confidence in his ability to beat Mongredien in a open position, regardless of whether the combination is sound or not.

Aug-14-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Honza Cervenka: <at a glance 15. ... Nxe5 looks better for black than the text.> Okay, but what next after 16.fxe5? Of course, 16...fxg4 (btw, Fritz 8's first choice) can be answered with 17.Rxh7!!

18...Qe8 would not have saved black for 19.Qh5+ Kg7 20.Qh6+ Kg8 21.Bxg6 Rf7 22.Kh1! Bf8 23.Qh5 Bg7 24.Rg1 Kf8 25. Rg3 with decisive attack.

Aug-14-08  TheaN: A fellow clubplayer of my chessclub plays the Scandinavian extremely weird:

<1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qg5?>

I still have not found a clear move-order that would turn the tempo advantage of White, after either <4.d4> or <4.Nf3>, into material or mate in a forced way: nonetheless, I won both games as my position was still superior five to ten moves later. I always try to tell the player that 3....Qg5 does not compensate for Black in any way after losing another tempo, sometimes even two. Don't know if he's changing it next season. For him I hope he does.

Aug-14-08  Sololoy: Kenkaku: A much faster win was 20. Qxg6+ Kf8 (20...Kh8 21. Qh7#) 21. Bh6+ Rg7 22. Bxg7+ Kg8 23. Bh6+ Kh8 24. Qg7#

What? If 20...Kh8 then 21. Qh7# can't be done because the queen is pinned!

Aug-14-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: The combination does not appear to be viable if black takes the knight first, say 15...Nxe5 followed by 16 fxe5.


click for larger view

Now, either 16...f4 or Bc8 (not fxg4, which transposes to the text) seem to be good alternatives for black.

Aug-14-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Chessmensch: With what black did to his kingside, it didn't take a Steinitz to beat him. The surprise is that he lasted as long as he did. I guess resigning was unfashionable.
Aug-14-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: I remember when this opening was called the Center Counter Game. If black deferred the recapture of the QP,it became the Center Counter Gambit.

White's attack was effective in chasing the black king from "pillow" to post.

Aug-14-08  A.G. Argent: <CG boys> - Excellent pun.
Aug-14-08  RookFile: This game shows one of the risks of fianchettoing the queen's bishop when you have black. For all the good the b7 bishop did, black was effectively a piece down when white started to attack. Even worse, had black done nothing with it (or delayed developing it like modern GM's do), the bishop on c8 would have controlled h3, discouraging the rook from going there.
Aug-14-08  sleepyirv: 3... Qd8 extremely passive or hyper-hyper-modern? I can't imagine why anyone would bother. It's not even that confusing- white can play simple development moves in reply.
Aug-14-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Pantagruel: Fittingly, this pun is a mondegreen.
Aug-14-08  RedStarRising: <Kenkaku: A much faster win was 20. Qxg6+ Kf8 (20...Kh8 21. Qh7#) 21. Bh6+ Rg7 22. Bxg7+ Kg8 23. Bh6+ Kh8 24. Qg7#>

20. Qxg6+?? is catastrophic on all accounts, as it will lead immediately to the loss of White's queen after 20...Kh8 (20...Kf8? 21.Bh6+ Rg7 22. Qxg7#)

Aug-15-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <sleepyirv> On 3. ... Qd8

James Plaskett: "The Scandinavian defence": (Batsford 2004)

"Stonewalling or what?

With this move Black either expresses no active ambitions whatsoever in the initial stages of the game, but rather he is aiming to avoid exposing his queen to early harassment from white's pieces whilst developing his pieces to sensible squares. Or he plays a quite different formation involving a quick fianchetto of the king's bishop to initiate play against d4.

If the stonewall approach is okay, then, as with the variation 3. ... Qe5+ this may be telling us that the slight loss of time Black cedes with his two early queen moves really is not so significant at all after White prevents himself from putting up a two pawn centre with 3. Nc3."

John Emms: "The Scandinavian" (Chess Press, 1997):

"3. ... Qd8 looks a little passive, but it does have some positive ideas, including a kingside fianchetto and the development of the king's knight to f5 via h6.

...

3. ... Qd8 and 3. ... Qd6 are certainly playable, but don't really challenge white in the way that 3. ... Qa5 does."

Jul-07-09  just a kid: Kasparov gives 15...Nxe5 as better.After 16.fxe5 Bc8! 17.gxf5 Bxf5,he has absolutely nothing.
Jul-07-09  just a kid: 16.Qxg4 also wins.
Mar-25-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  jessicafischerqueen: This game was played in the great <London 1862> tournament, during the second London World Exhibition. It was won by Adolf Anderssen.

It was Steinitz's debut at strong International Tournaments- he finished in 6th place and won <5 pounds>.

In addition, however, he was awarded the BRILLIANCY PRIZE for this game against Mongredien.

And it would prove to be the first of many.

May-14-11  theodor: 25.Rf7 also wins
Jun-07-11  James Bowman: Steinits was like a great samurai with two katana like bishops slicing and slashing his way to victory.
Mar-20-12  Anderssen99: A faster mate is: 23.e6+, Kf8 (...,Ke8. 24.Qh7,Rf8. 25.Qxg6+,Rf7. 26.Qxf7 mate). 24.Qh6+,Rg7. 25.Qh8+,Rg8. 26.Bh6+,Ke8. 27.Bxg6 mate.
Oct-25-12  wildrookie: What's da pun about 'cos I donna get it?
Oct-25-12  paavoh: Perhaps "seize her" for "Caesar"?
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