< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·
|Mar-21-12|| ||Muztang: gofer, I think there's another line behind 13... Be6|
14. Bxe6 Qa6
With the idea of 16 Bxe4. The threat of Bg5 is always hanging (as h6 allows Bxg6), so the black king is virtually cornered.
I cannot see any forced mate, but the pressure on Black's position seems crushing (with Rd1 coming soon, and white benefiting from any exchange)... Oh, and the material advantage went from a piece to a piece and two pawns ;-)
What do you think?
|Mar-21-12|| ||Oxspawn: Ha! Black did not even have square e1 to run to. The knight was even more effective than I thought.
But never mind all that. Never mind the solution. Who cares? There they were 123 years ago Mikhail Chigorin and George Hatfeild Gossip in New York sitting down to a game of chess. Morning or afternoon? After dinner? I expect at least one of them was smoking. What was the room like? Oak pannels, and servants, or sawdust on the floor and a pint of ale to hand. Did they like each other or see this as a struggle of different cultures? They battle away for not very long and Gossip, who must have been talking too much to his neighbour slips up and gets a gorin'. Do they shake hands? Glower at each other? Does Gossip go home and kick the cat? Does Chigorin order vodka?
Of one thing we can be certain. Neither of them thought that 123 years later their game would be disembowelled and dished up cold as an appetiser for people across the globe to tewak their brains and avoid their real work. That was certianly a move neither of them saw coming, and it is quite awe inspiring really. In fact, it is enough to send me back to my work...|
|Mar-21-12|| ||En prise: Viking78. If a triple discovered checkmate was possible in chess, it would have shown up in an Alekhine game.|
|Mar-21-12|| ||Pawn and Two: <gofer: No one has looked at 13...Be6. Am I crazy or is this a reasonable option for black? Okay it loses a piece, but it doesn't die immediately.>|
Steinitz looked at your move, 13...Be6. In the tournament book he stated: <"Giving up a piece by Be6 was the only move to save the mate or loss of a Queen, but, of course, the game was gone.">
|Mar-21-12|| ||Limpin Kt: <oxpawn> nice post|
|Mar-21-12|| ||Penguincw: Mondays and Tuesday are easy, Wednesdays start to get harder. Too bad I didn't have the luck I had last week (I solved at least the first move up to Saturday).|
|Mar-21-12|| ||TheBish: Chigorin vs Gossip, 1889|
White to play (13.?) "Medium/Easy"
Sometimes the simplest moves are best! Here, Black's king is a sitting duck, and we only need to find a move that clears the Nd2 so we can play Bc1-g5+, causing the Black monarch severe pain!
13. Nc4! Qa6 14. Bg5+ Kxf7 15. Nd6#.
|Mar-21-12|| ||srag: I found this POTD too easy for a Wednesday, don't you think?|
|Mar-21-12|| ||dragon player: Black's king is stuck in the quite draughty center. Lets
look for a matingcombination. The problem is that white's
pieces are not so active, this makes an attack on the king
more difficult. This move activates some pieces:
13. Nc4 Qa6
The only square for the queen.
14. Bg5+ Kxf7
An artistic mate. I hope black allowed white to mate him.
Time to check.
Yes, he did and I was right.
3/3 so far this week.
|Mar-21-12|| ||psmith: <gofer> et al:
Fritz 5.32 finds a very clever line; 13...Be6 14. Bxe6 Qa6 15. Nb6! If 15... cxb6 16. Qd5 forces mate. (The threats are Bg5+, and Qd7-f7#; if 16... e3 or 16...f4 17. Qd7+ Kf6 18. Qf7+ Kg5 19. Qf5+ Kh6 20. g4 followed by Qh5#.) If Black moves his Q-rook, the fact that the White Knight is covering d7 permits mate with Bg5+ and Bf7#. So Black has to lose the rook as well.
|Mar-21-12|| ||solskytz: Funny thing is, a triple check is indeed a possibility!|
At one time, the FIDE rules stated that you can't leave your king at 'check from one or two pieces'.
Then a guy composed a problem whereby his own king is in check by one piece - and he has to force mate (but of course also to get out of check)
the solution was, to move a piece which exposes his own king to check from two more directions - so that in total his king is threatened from three directions at the same time!
Which, according to the FIDE definition of that time, didn't make a valid check - as it isn't 'one or two pieces' which are checking!
Then the FIDE definition got changed to 'one OR MORE pieces attacking the king'...
Would be nice if someone posted this problem here...
and another request: can anybody post a link to Monday's POTD? Thx!!
|Mar-21-12|| ||benjinathan: fairly easy. But the thing I find most amazing is that Gossip's page is not filled with stuff in the way that <Odd Lie's> page is.|
|Mar-21-12|| ||ZZpatzer: <Once> As usual a great write-up. I took the "Bully" approach here (as much as I would like to be a "Dreamer"....) 13. Nc4 opens up the black-square Bishop and attacks Q, and then look for good moves after that.|
|Mar-21-12|| ||ajile: I had
13.Nc4 Qa6 14.Nb6 winning the exchange but 13.Nc4 Qa6 14.Bg5+ Kxf7 15.Nd6++ is faster.
I'm just trying to move the knight to allow Bg5+ but 13.Nxe4 doesn't work because after 13..fxe4 the queen on a5 covers the g5 square.
Actually my line doesn't seem to work since after 13.Nc4 Qa6 14.Nb6 cxb6 15.Bg5+ Kd6 16.Qd5+ Black now has ..Kc7.
|Mar-21-12|| ||viking78: <solskytz> that's very interesting, hope to find on the net what you said, thanks a lot|
|Mar-21-12|| ||doubledrooks: White ends matters with 13. Nc4 Qa6 (or Nxd4) 14. Bg5+ Kxf7 15. Nd6#.|
|Mar-21-12|| ||WinKing: <gofer: No one has looked at 13 ... Be6. Am I crazy or is this a reasonable option for black? Okay it loses a piece, but it doesn't die immediately...>|
No it doesn't lose immediately <gofer> you are right. Black hangs around for awhile but his game is awful. Here is what Rybka thinks in your line:
<13.Nc4 Be6 14.Bxe6 Qa6 15.Bg5+ Ke8> (if 15...Kxe6 16.Nb6+)
16.Bf7+ Kd7<16...Kxf7 17.Nd6#)> 17.Na5 <(threatening 18.Qe6 mate)> Nxa5 18.Qd5+ Qd6 19.Qxf5+ Kc6 20.Na3<(threatening 21.Qb5 mate)> a6 21.d5+ Kb6 22.Be3+ c5 23.dxc6+ Kxc6 24.Rad1 <& now if the queen moves to get away 25.Qd5 is mate>.
But here we are at move 25 already which is much longer than Gossip lasted in the actual game. 13...Be6 is another move I missed as did most of us.
|Mar-21-12|| ||bachiller: Concerning triple checks, there is a story of Capablanca checkmating three kings at one time (on a legendary match against a Martian).|
You can read it (in Spanish) here
Or hear and see it at
A little help: Rey = King, ahogado = stalemated, Negro = Black, D(ama) = Q(ueen), tablas = draw.
|Mar-21-12|| ||kellmano: <solskytz> Wouldn't it have to be a king in a double check, then moving another piece to open another line of attack?|
|Mar-21-12|| ||Memethecat: I think Nc4 & blacks choices are grim, Mmm even a possible mate.|
13Nc4 Qa6 14Ne5 Nxe5 15Bg5+ Kd6 16Qd5#
Siht, I thought I had that.
|Mar-21-12|| ||Memethecat: <Once> Avatar, worth a look. He's created a world were the best parts of us would love to live. I think its on tv this Sunday.|
|Mar-21-12|| ||kevin86: I think that the theme is the same as the classic "Indian Problem".|
First move:white attacks queen and allow an escape square for the king
Second move:White forces the king onto the created flight square.
Final move:white recovers the escape square AND attacks with the moving piece:DOUBLE check and mate!!
|Mar-21-12|| ||agb2002: The material is equal.
The black king will probably try to escape via d8.
White can incorporate more forces into attack with 13.Nc4 Qa6 14.Bg5+ Kxf7 15.Nd6#.
|Mar-21-12|| ||solskytz: <Kellmano> yeah, I guess :-]|
Link to Monday's POTD, anybody?
|Mar-21-12|| ||tcoxon39: Surely black must have seen this mate coming, so why bother saving the queen? |
13...Qd5 prevents mate at loss of queen, but gives black a chance to bolster his defenses.
14. Bxd5 h6 eliminates the Bg5+ threat
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