< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·
|Nov-02-07|| ||awfulhangover: Wow! I solved it 100% correctly. Feels good after yesterday's miss.|
|Nov-02-07|| ||RandomVisitor: Black might have tried 24...Qxd7.|
|Nov-02-07|| ||Honza Cervenka: This one was not difficult at all. 40.Rxg7+ Kxg7 41.Rg1+ is fairly obvious and after that black is toast. I would play 42.Nxf7 instantly as Alekhine did because it seems to be quite simple and secure way to win though 42.Nf3! is objectively better. I don't understand where are those drawing chances for Astalosz according to Vukovich after that. 42...Qxf7 43.Bd3+ Qg6 is forced to avoid immediate mate and after 44.Bxg6+ Bxg6 45.Qf6 Rg8 46.Qxe6 white has easily won game.|
|Nov-02-07|| ||Fusilli: < An Englishman: ... I also know that Vukovic, in The Art of Attack in Chess, called Alekhine's last move a blunder that gave Asztalos drawing chances! > Why is 42.Nxf7 a blunder? To me, 42.Nxf7 is the most beautiful move (and it wins) because it uses the black bishop to block the queen from defending. It threatens two mates (Qh6 and Qe4), so black needs to take the knight. If 42...Bxf7 43.Bd3+ wins. The only thing I see is 42...Qxf7 43.Bd3+ Qf5 44.Bxf5+ exf5 45. Qxf5+ followed by Qf6+ winning the rook in d8 if there is no mate, with Q for R for white, and an exposed black king. Can someone show me the "drawing chances"? What did I miss?|
|Nov-02-07|| ||Nostrils: Who was it said 'If you see a winning line - play it'.|
|Nov-02-07|| ||Jack Kerouac: Alekhine does not blunder!He may become 'positionally challenged'....|
|Nov-02-07|| ||ConstantImprovement: I. A sacrificial approach
40. Rg7:+ Kg7: 41. Rg1+ (41. Qg3+ Kh7 42. Rg1 f5) Kh7 (else Qh6#) 42. Bd3+ f5 43. Bf5: ef 44. Qf5:+ Kh8, and no good continuation.
But interesting is 42. Nf7:. It threatens Qh6# and takes away the potentially blocking f-pawn.
42. ... Qf7: 43. Bd3+ Kh8 (Qg6 44. Bg6:+ is hopeless, either) 44. Qh6+ Qh7 45. Qh7:#
42. ... Bf7: 43. Bd3+ Bg6 44. Rg6: (Bg6:+ is winning, too: Kg7 45. Qe5+; Kh8 Qh6+) Kh6 45. Qh6+ Qh7 46. Qg5, threatening 47. Rh6 and 47. Qd8:+.
II. Getting closer first
40. Qh6 Qf8? 41. Rg7:+ Qg7: 42. Rg1 Qg1:+ 43. Kg1:
40. ... f6 41. Rg7:+ Qg7: 42. Rg1 Rd4: 43. Rg7:+ Rg7: with certain counterplay because Black threatens Rh4#.
|Nov-02-07|| ||whiteshark: <Fusilli: <.. Why is 42.Nxf7 a blunder? >>
It's not a blunder but a good winning move! However, after two attacking moves (40.Rxg7+/41.Rg1+), in the moment of highest tension, the (silent?) retreat <42.Nf3!!> forces black to refund a lot of material immediately to avoid mate.|
|Nov-02-07|| ||znprdx: Where else than here on CG would we find patzers second-guessing Alekhine :) notwithstanding Vukovic? At least Asztalos showed the appropriate respect by resigning - (which is an art in itself) why is anyone wasting time thinking that surrending the queen is a reasonable defense - other than perhaps in time pressure or blitz?|
I found Nxf7 gob-smacking - but admit that Nf3 is most equisite - as it reminds me of a similar knight retreat which was the real fine point in the Fischer-Benko "bolt from the blue" game.
|Nov-02-07|| ||Calli: <Honza> and <Alpha> You are right. I was looking at 44.Rxg6 as given earlier and it is not so clear. Your 44.Bxg6 is much better and should win easily. Had Alekhine played 42.Nf3, however, it would have elevated the status of the combo. Like a key move in a problem, suddenly all the pieces coordinate perfectly.|
|Nov-02-07|| ||zb2cr: I, too, recalled seeing this game in Vlaidmir Vukovic's "The Art of Attack in Chess", just like <An Englishman>.|
Even funnier, if I recall correctly--I don't have the book in front of me--Alekhine was awarded the brilliancy prize for the game based on the final sacrifice and his analysis of the line after 42. Nxf7.
|Nov-02-07|| ||NakoSonorense: This has got to be one of the easiest Friday puzzles ever. After 40.Rxg7+ Kxg7 41.Rg1+, Black has only 4 choices, two of which lose immediately, one loses the queen, and one that prolongs the game a little. After 41. Kh7, the White Bishop can attack the king, but Black can defend it with his pawn. Solution? Get rid of the pawn with the knight.|
I solved this in less than 30 seconds. It took me that long because I had to check my calendar to see that today is in fact Friday, get a cup of coffee, some cookies, brush my teeth, and yawn for ten seconds...
|Nov-02-07|| ||Rama: The Ne5 consumed seven moves getting there. This long-winded Knight maneuver is the center-piece of the game -- the predator circling his prey. The move 42. Nf3 ..., is in keeping with this theme and we can be sure Alekhine saw it. It must have appealed to his artistic side.|
Yet he chose 42. Nxf7 ..., and look! His opponent resigned on the spot!
There is some chess lesson here but what? Is it that the game is more important than the players? The Laws of Chess have a firm grip on Alekhine, who is at the top of his form.
|Nov-02-07|| ||Chicago Chess Man: Not sure why this was supposed to be difficult. Rxg7 took about five seconds. Of course, the followup, Nxf7 is tougher, but I wouldn't call it 3 stars difficult.|
|Nov-02-07|| ||Calli: Had to dig out the book:
According to Vukovic, Alekhine in the tournament book gives 42.Nxf7 Qxf7 43.Bd3+ Qg6 44.Bxg6+ Bxg6 45.Rxg6?
"So far this is Alekhine's analysis. However, 45.Qf6! Rg8 46.Qxe6 is stronger and does indeed win, though White still has a hard task ahead."-Vukovic
[John Nunn in the Everyman edition of the book disputes this evaluation]
45...Kxg6 46.Qe4+ Kg7 47.Qe5+ "after a few further checks, Black would inevitably lose one of his rooks" - Alekhine
"Here Kg6 48.Qxe6+ Kg7 49.Qxc6 Rb1+ 50.Kg2 Rxd4 51.Qc7+ Kg6 The checks cease whereupon black rooks begin to deploy themselves for play against the king or the c-pawn. One cannot see how White can win; the position is very likely drawn. Alekhine unintentionally bluffed the unfortunate Asztalos and the jury, who on basis of his analysis awarded him the Brilliancy prize." - Vukovic. He goes on to recommend 42.Qg3.
Summary: Neither Alekhine or Vukovic saw the sweet 42.Nf3. Alekhine also missed 45.Qf6. Vukovic makes an inexplicably bad evaluation of 45.Qf6!
|Nov-02-07|| ||kevin86: An unusual puzzle in that the LAST move was the real solution,not the first. After all,the first moves rate one star-two at most. The Nxf7 move is the one that gives the problem a "lieutenant general" status.|
|Nov-02-07|| ||MostlyAverageJoe: WHY are so many people gushing over 42.Nxf7, if it is unquestionably NOT the best move???|
NOT EVEN THE SECOND best.
And not even aesthetically pleasing (42.Nf3 is way, way, prettier to me).
<znprdx: Where else than here on CG would we find patzers second-guessing Alekhine> You talking to me? Are you talking to me?? You must be talking to me ... (pulling out some software out of the sleeve of an old military jacket. Oh, well, back to driving my taxi. Cheers).
MAJ, who also missed THE REAL winning move 42.Nf3.
PS: Hey, <whiteshark>! Did you just get full membership recently, or am I confused?
|Nov-02-07|| ||Jimfromprovidence: Yesterday’s puzzle was way tougher.
Geller vs Furman, 1959
The forcing moves were much more difficult to find. You also had to analyze a strong alternative response that black could have played 35… Qe7.
I loved the Friday puzzle three weeks ago, however.
Alekhine vs Tartakower, 1927
That one gave me fits.
|Nov-02-07|| ||fm avari viraf: It's seems to me that Black's King is in jeopardy as all the White's pieces are ready to pounce. Hence, the most crushing move is 40.Rxg7+! Kxg7 41.Rg1+ & Black has no adequate defense. For instance, 41...Kf8? then 42.Qh6# again 41...Kh8? then 42.Qh6# so the only move left is 41...Kh7 but this also loses either to 42.Nxf7 or 42.Nf3.|
|Nov-02-07|| ||patzer2: For today's puzzle solution, one good demolition of pawn structure beginning with 40. Rxg7!! leads to another with the follow-up 42. Nxf7!|
After this, the winning lines pointed out here by <Honza Cervenka> and <fm avari viraf> win easily.
|Nov-02-07|| ||fm avari viraf: I find an anomaly in the analysis of <ConstantImprovemnet: & Alphastar: both seems to have mentioned 42...Qxf7 43.Bd3+ Kh8 44.Qh6+ Qh7 45.Qxh7#> After, 45.Qxh7+ Rxh7 & there is no mate. But White can mate after 44.Qh6+ Qh7 45.Qf8+ Qg8 & 46.Qxg8#|
|Nov-02-07|| ||whitebeach: Like YouRang and MAJ, the first thing I looked at was the 42. Qg3 line. It was also the last thing I looked at, since it calculates out to a totally won position in a bare handful of forcing moves. I figured that was the solution. Never saw Nxf7 (the third-best move so far) or the pretty Nf3.|
But I guess everybody loves a sacrifice. Somewhere in his book “My 60 Memorable Games,” Fischer in analyzing one of his wins says that after the fact, he realized that such-and-such a move was stronger for him and would have led to a quick and routine crush. But, he says philosophically, if he’d found this move instead of the one he actually made, then he wouldn’t have won the tournament brilliancy prize for his later play in the game.
This is encouraging, since I’ve missed a lot of objectively best moves in my time. Still waiting, however, for a brilliancy prize. Not sure what’s causing the delay.
|Nov-02-07|| ||xrt999: < eblunt: <Calli> 42Nxf7 does work, eventually, but you're right 42 Nf3 is the real killer >|
I think 42.Nxf7 is more of a psychological move. It may not be the best move, but it wins the game. Alekhine just sacrificed a rook, and now a Knight? Put yourself in black's shoes.
<Both are better than 42 Bd3+ though , IMO>
I actually played this move, and was met with 42...f5. Ouch.
|Nov-03-07|| ||sanyas: Alekhine gave 42.xf7 a !!. Exclams also went to 15.c3 ( h5 and d5), 19.c5, 22.e2, 27.h4, 32.a2, 32...b4, 33.c4, 37.h5 and 40.xg7+. If 32...e7 then 33.xgg wins. Also 27...g6 28.h5 g5 29.f4. Alekhine dislikes 4...h6 because "Black's pair of Bishops will not quite compensate for White's advantage in space. If 13...f8 then 14.c3 e5. If 35.xg6 xd4, or 35.h5 gxh5 36.xh5 xd4|
|Nov-03-07|| ||whiteshark: <MAJ> Yes, since three days!!!
I've no credit card and bankers fees are as high as the premium itself, so I just ask them about a possible payment via paypal. 5 mins later I became full member. Still wondering why not asking earlier ?@@?|
<== Look what could happen to cute babies, when they try to be serious some years later... :D
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·