< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Nov-24-04|| ||drukenknight: All you fans of showing how the Rook slays the Knight might want to show our younger players how this game should end. |
|Nov-24-04|| ||euripides: Alehkine gives Whiter' 9th move a ? He may be wrong; Vidmar wastes a lot of time later and some people have suggested 9 f3 itself may be OK, though it hasn't been played much since.|
The line with the king march features in a spectacular win by Atalik over Sax and was played by Kasparov against Adams, I think, recently.
|Nov-24-04|| ||drukenknight: wow people actually play that wandering K line? It seems to be almost lost, but sometimes people wriggle out. In this game where is the win? |
|Nov-24-04|| ||Spassky69: f5 will fall and he's down the exchange, what do you mean where's the win?! :)) |
|Nov-24-04|| ||drukenknight: does he need the f pawn?
58. f6 Rxf6 59. Nd2 Rf5 60. Nf3+ Kf6....?
|Nov-24-04|| ||beatgiant: <does he need the f pawn?>|
After that, Black's plan is to attack the kingside pawns. For example, after your line <58. f6 Rxf6 59. Nd2 Rf5 60. Nf3+ Kf6>, play might continue 61. Nd4 Rc5 62. Ne2 Rc4+ 63. Nf4 Ra4 64. Kf3 Kf5 65. g4+ (otherwise Black keeps driving White's king back) Kg5 66. Ne6+ Kh4 67. Nxg7 Rxg4 68. Ne8 Rg5 }. Black will soon win the h-pawn while keeping White's king cut off, so the ending becomes an easy win.
|Nov-24-04|| ||Spassky69: <does he need the f pawn? > What's your rating? Can't you see a KR with two extra P's vs. KN endgame is so obviously losing for white that posting lines is really funny. |
|Nov-24-04|| ||drukenknight: what two extra pawns? I see pawns on g3 and h5. Maybe I have the board set up wrong? |
|Nov-25-04|| ||beatgiant: <what two extra pawns? I see pawns on g3 and h5. Maybe I have the board set up wrong?>|
You have the board set up right. <Spassky69>'s point is that ♔♖♙♙ vs ♔♘♙♙ is well known to be almost always an easy win for the side with the ♖, so we should study how to win it by ourselves and not spend too much space about it on the forum.
In his game collection, Alekhine commented that the advance of the h-pawn 39. h4 was a big mistake, weakening the pawn structure. I'm not sure what the theoretical status of this endgame is if White avoids that.
|Apr-17-05|| ||Calli: The analysts have gone back and forth on 39.h4 . Does anyone have the book Fundamental Endings by Lemprecht and Müller? Somewhere I read that they covered the latest theory on this ending. |
|Jun-29-05|| ||lopium: Alekhine seems much stronger than his oppenent in this game.|
|Aug-21-05|| ||avidfan: 52. f4 is not check!
41.g4! (41.Kh3 Ra3 42.Kg4 Ke6 43.Kf4 Kd5 44.h5 Kd4 45.Nd6 Kd3
46.Nf5 Kd3 47.Nf5 Ra4+ 48.Kg3 Ra5 49.Kf4 Ra7 50.g4 Ke2 51.Kg3)
41...Ke5 42.Kg3 g6 43.Nf2 Ra3 44.Nh3 Ra4 45.Kf2! h5 46.gxh5 Rxh4
47.hxg6 [draw due to Russian theoretician Leikin]
|Oct-17-05|| ||Gypsy: 43...Rd2 would have been a fine move.|
|Oct-17-05|| ||Calli: <avidfan> What do you mean 41.g4 ? In the game, White's king is at g3 on move 41.|
|Nov-04-05|| ||avidfan: <Calli> You are right. It should read 41. Kh3 Ke6 42.g2-g4 etc... so all move numbers should be incremented by one.|
|Jul-31-07|| ||Chess Carnival: In his Chessninja.com web site Mig Greengard gives the following winning lines for black (its a free issue, and very worth studying through):|
<[58.Nd2 Rxf5 59.Nc4+ Ke6 60.Ne3 Rg5+ 61.Kh4 Re5 Driving the knight away whenever possible. The knight just cannot stop the black rook and king from penetrating. 62.Nc2 (62.Ng4 Re2 Dominating the knight again. 63.Kh3 Kf5 64.Kh4 (64.Nh2
64...Rxh2+! You have to know which pawn endgames are winning in order to successfully play the piece endings! The advanced position of the black king makes this an easy win.
65.Kxh2 Kg4 66.Kg2 Kxh5 67.Kh3 Kg5 68.Kg2 Kg4 69.Kf2 h5 70.Kg2 g5 Grabbing the opposition and pushing the white king away. 71.Kf2 Kh3 72.Kf3 g4+ 73.Kf4 Kg2 74.Ke5 Kxg3) 64...Re4 65.Kh3 Rxg4) 62...Re4+ 63.Kh3 Kf5 64.Na3 Kg5]>
|Jul-31-07|| ||Chess Carnival: And here is the link for the free material:
|Jun-11-08|| ||Whitehat1963: Monday puzzle after 35. Rb2.|
|Jun-22-08|| ||CharlesSullivan: As Mark Dvoretsky points out in Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual (p.231 of the 2nd edition), White's last chance to hold the position is 49.♘g6+! He follows up with 49...♔d4 10.♘h4 ♖a2 11.♔f4! ♔d3 12.g4 ♔e2 13.♔g3=.|
|Sep-29-08|| ||GrahamClayton: This ending is mentioned in Jon Speelman's book "Endgame Preparation", published by Batsford in 1981. After Alekhine's success in winning this endgame, this position was considered "theoretically won" by the player with the rook. However, in 1940 problem composer A Leykin came up with two defensive positions based on a "fortress" that the player with the Knight should try to achieve straight away, which result in a draw. Can someone post the Leylin positions?|
|Sep-09-10|| ||Richard Taylor: Alekhine in his book felt the position could be a draw if white didn't play pawn moves forward. Vidmar's pawn to h5 is wrong. Even after 39 h4 ...he says "White's pawns shouldn't be touched without necessity or without real prospects of being exchanged.." and he says after 38 ... K-B8 (Kf8)|
Black's plan evidently consists in gradually restricting the activity of both White's pieces and in trying to create Pawn-weaknesses in the enemy's structure. Whether this can be carried out against an impeccable defence is another question. Not having seen an end-game like this in the literature devoted to that branch of chess, I confess I was rather expecting my opponent to succeed in finding an impregnable defensive position for both hi King and Knight."
Which is somewhat is corroborated above by <GrahamClayton>'s comment.
|Sep-09-10|| ||Richard Taylor: <lopium: Alekhine seems much stronger than his opponent in this game.>|
He had a high opinion of Vidmar. He says at the end of the game (in his book).
"My games with Dr Vidmar have generally been full of lie and struggle."
|Sep-09-10|| ||whiteshark: <RT> *life ?|
|Dec-18-15|| ||Richard Taylor: Yes, should be "life". Thanks <whiteshark>|
|Jul-26-17|| ||Zhbugnoimt: 9.f3 Nf6 10.dxe5! Nxe5 11.cxd5 Qxd5 12.e4 gives White a huge edge, according to GMs Stockfish and Komodo.|
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