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Rene Letelier Martner vs Robert James Fischer
"A Queen for the King" (game of the day Jul-29-05)
Leipzig Olympiad Prelim (1960)  ·  King's Indian Defense: Normal Variation (E70)  ·  0-1
To move:
Last move:

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Given 297 times; par: 32 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 8 OF 8 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-24-13  Petrosianic: <sfm> I don't see any severe deficiencies in this game. If you think you do, the mistake is probably yours.
Apr-24-13  Petrosianic: This is why it's a good idea to study older games. These days in a game between top GM's, nobody would ever play a move like 5. e5, and so the student wouldn't get to see what's wrong with it. On the face of it, it LOOKS decent.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Shams: <Petrosianic> If what you say is true, why do most Black players at all levels favor the 4...d6 move order?
Apr-24-13  Petrosianic: Good question. From the way Black shreds White's center after e5, Black can't be playing d6 out of fear. I'm guessing it's because the immediate d6 is a little more flexible in allowing movement for the QB and d7 for the Knight, which Black may want to have, depending on what White does.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Shams: <Petrosianic> You must be right. I didn't realize White's score with 5.e5 Ne8 was so bad:

Opening Explorer

Apr-26-13  theodor: <<newzild>: Winning lines, according to my calculations:

26...Qxf4+, and now:

a) 27. Kxf4 Bh6#

b) 27. Ke2 Nd4+ wins the Bf3 and the game.

c) 27. Kf2 Nd4 and now;

c1) 28.Qd1 Ng4+, and now 29. Kg2 Ne3+ wins the queen

c2) 28. Qd3 Ng4+ 29. Kg2 Ne3+ and Black wins the bishop.>> what about d) 27. Kd3!?

Apr-26-13  theodor: in ''guess the move'' I played 22 ..;Ng4+ , and I have not been awarded! But, after 23 BxN;Bd4! the attack is also very strong.
Premium Chessgames Member
  SamAtoms1980: Context is so important.

In Guess-the-Move, I diddle around, drop 3 points over the last two moves (but still finish above par), and then <*BAM*>, game over.

If this is a Monday or Tuesday puzzle set at 23....?, a few dozen of us come out, and we're all like "23....Qxf4+!! ZOMG, LOL, I are teh pwnz0r".

Nobody tells you if you can "Monday" your opponent when you're playing over the board.

Jun-14-13  master of defence: Why not 11.Nxd6 Nxd6 12.Qxd6 Qxd6 13.exd6 Bxb2 14.Rd1?
Jun-20-13  SufferingBruin: Just played this on "Guess the Move". I'm low rated but damn if I wasn't just a little cocky getting most of the moves right (a couple of howlers but still, better than I'm used to).

I didn't get 23. ... Rxe3 though I considered it.

I *never* considered Qxf4, an amazing move. I'm jealous of people who saw it live, Letelier included.

Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Phony Benoni: Fischer must have been channeling his Inner Menchik....>

That is a game I had never seen, but with Fischer's tremendous knowledge and obsessive work habits, I should not be at all surprised to learn that he knew of Barasz-Menchik, or at the very least, the motif.

Premium Chessgames Member
  RookFile: It comes up if we do what Alekhine says and consider all captures and checks on every move.
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: Can someone give me an executive summary of all the kibitzing?
Jul-04-13  beatgiant: <offramp> <Can someone give me an executive summary of all the kibitzing?> Nice game, 5. e5 is wrong, and Fischer probably knew that from pre-game study.
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: Thank you, <beat giant>!
Jul-21-13  talwnbe4: Fruit on a core 2 duo 1.86 Ghz single processor finds 16.. fxe6 is better than 16.. f5 after 5:43 1.68. However, after analysing 16..f5 17. f4 Nf6 18. Bg2 Rfe8 19. O-O Ng4 20. Bd2 Rad8 21. Qe1 Nd4 Fruit 2.2.1 finds black's position overwhelming 2.50.
Jul-28-13  Everett: I just realized something after all these years of chess that many of you must already know: the knowledge needed to utilize queen sacrifices in games has very little* to do with the queen and everything to do with the harmony of everything else but the queen. So any queen sacrifice, brought to our attention due to the power of the queen, teaches us explicitly of the power of pieces and pawns working together. By focusing on the queen, however, we are wrongly focusing on what is leaving the board rather than what remains.

* the queen is the most powerful magnet/decoyer/deflector on the board, and thus usually commands a forced response, which other piece or pawn moves may not compel.

Aug-10-13  Mudphudder: Can't go over the game enough. Still one of my all time favorite Fischer games!
Sep-22-13  kasparvez: One question: has anyone ever sacrificed a queen against Fischer and won??
Sep-22-13  Travis Bickle: True genius!
Oct-20-13  hedgeh0g: <Shams: ...why do most Black players at all levels favor the 4...d6 move order?>

I don't think it has anything to do with 5.e5, but rather 5.Bg5!

The point is that if Black responds with 5...h6, the bishop can retreat to e3, since the g4 square is not available for the Black knight. After 6...d6, White can opt for either a favourable Sämisch with 7.f3 or adopt a more flexible setup with 7.Be2. In any case, an eventual Qd2 is going to come with tempo.

And if Black doesn't play ...h6, White will naturally follow up with Qd2 with a nice game. Of course, it's hardly a refutation of the opening, but it does suggest, in my view, that 4...O-O is arguably an inaccuracy.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Shams: <hedgeh0g> Very good! Thank you.
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: <hedgeh0g> Well said. John L Watson makes essentially the same points in <Mastering the Chess Openings, Volume 2>, pp. 188-89. After 4...0-0 5.Bg5! d6 6.Qd2! White has gotten to play Bg5 straightaway, without prefacing it with Be2 (the Averbakh) or f3 (the Sämisch). He scores a massive 64.6% in's database (albeit with a small sample size - only 130 games). Opening Explorer

Note also that after 4...d6(!), 5.Bg5 sucks like a duck in a truck who needs a good - well, you get the idea. Black plays 5...h6, and on 6.Bh4 c5 7.d5 (7.dxc5 Qa5 8.Bd3 Qxc5=), 7...g5 8.Bg3 Qa5! 9.Bd3 (9.Qd2 Nh5! wins the bishop pair) Nxe4! and Black is better. Watson cites Black's crushing victories in Stein vs Geller, 1966 and Spassky vs Fischer, 1992.

Sep-01-14  Mating Net: White probably thought that 21...Rxe3! was an exchange sacrifice. When Fischer played 23...Qxf4!! he must have been stunned.
Premium Chessgames Member
  RookFile: I'm sure you're right. He was probably expecting some other check, like ...Qb6+ or ....Ng4+. For a few seconds, he must have thought Fischer had completely lost it.
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