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Robert James Fischer vs Mikhail Tal
"French Drawings" (game of the day Oct-15-07)
Leipzig Olympiad Final (1960)  ·  French Defense: Winawer. Retreat Variation Armenian Line (C18)  ·  1/2-1/2
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Robert James Fischer vs Mikhail Tal (1960)

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 7 OF 7 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-24-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Correction.

It's not Laslo Szabo it's Julius Szabo. They are not related (got me Szabo's mixed up.)

I'm still blaming HeMateMe.

Feb-24-16  thegoodanarchist: < Sally Simpson: Correction.

It's not Laslo Szabo it's Julius Szabo. They are not related (got me Szabo's mixed up.)

I'm still blaming HeMateMe.>

After I read page 4, I assumed that maybe your source said Julius was Szabo's nickname.

Feb-24-16  thegoodanarchist: When I google searched for images of Szabo, I typed in <laszlo szabo chess player> and one of the images that came up was The Incredible Hulk.

No kidding.

Feb-24-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Geoff> Worst part is, there are many who bear the surname Szabo and the grandmaster is far from the only one of note called Laszlo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%...

Knew the GM was not the famous one, but had no idea there have been <that> many.

Feb-24-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Joshka: <perfidious> Are you just a tournament player? expert?master? wow, did he offer you a drink? LOL;-) Imagine playing Tal WHILE drinking!!!LOL..guess he still whipped your behind?....Did you get to BS with him about Fischer, Karpov, Kasparov? You were in the presence of one of the greats EVER!! What were the circumstances he agreed too play you?? If I may ask??
Feb-24-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Joshka: <Retireborn> Well Ray might know for sure, but he's NOT that old;-)LOL think he started playing in the late 60's....but being grown up and living in Europe I'm sure if he were to look at that pick, he'd tell us. The more I look at that pic, the more I'm sure it's Uhlmann. But I would trust Ray's answer for sure.
Feb-24-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Joshka: I posted the pic on Ray's page, this will get settled once and for all :-) Heck even Nigel would know too.
Feb-24-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  luftforlife: Might the onlooker with the widow's peak sporting the dark-on-dark shirt-jacket combo be IM Karl Burger, M.D.? I've read that he once taught Fischer at the Manhattan Chess Club, and there seems to be a resemblance to a later photograph. Best to all. ~ lufty
Feb-24-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Hi Joshka,

The page 4 source who first suggested it maybe Julius Szabo has actually played both Julius & Lazlo Szabo.

Feb-24-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Geoff....(Have you noticed every time Perfidious mentions his blitzing with Tal the score changes. In 2012 Tal won 9-1. 2013 Tal won 8-2, in 2014 Tal won 7-3, last year Tal won 6-4. I'm looking forward to his next post ;) )>

I won 11-0, laying 5-1 time odds.

Feb-25-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  TheFocus: <perfodious> <I won 11-0, laying 5-1 time odds.>

Yeah, but you had an ally in the bottle.

Mar-03-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  maxi: It is clear that when Tal played 16...BxR he had to have foreseen the manoeuvre 18...Rxg+, ...Qe5, ...QxN, ...Qg4+. Remarkable.

By the way, in My 60 Memorable Games Fischer says that 19.KxB loses after 19... Rxh2 20.Qf7 Rh1+, which "... produces a winning attack from nowhere!". But I fail to see anything after 21.Kg2 Qh2+ 22.Kf3 Qh3+ 23.Kf4 Qh4+ 24.Ke5. The White knight is excellently place and the White f2 Pawn can move to f4 to hamper checks. If Black is not careful he may actually lose. Look up <dale2222222>'s comment in this thread.

Mar-03-16  Howard: Soltis called this draw one of the most "overrated" games in history, and, frankly, he's right. It was a good game, but not worth all the hype in my view.

Incidentally, Maxi, he does point out that 19.Kxc1 (or KxB) would NOT have lost, after all, contrary to what Fischer said. To be fair, though, the path to a draw would have been rather thorny, so Fischer's 19.Kh1 was best.

Mar-03-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  maxi: Howard, you mean 19.Kf1. Thanks for the info, I have not read Soltis' book.

When going over Fischer's games one see's he avoids confusing (unclear?) lines.

Objectively speaking, Fischer's move 19.Kh1 is better, since it leads straight to the draw. But it is possible to consider 19.Kf1 a better move, in a different sense: it is a very devious move. It is easy for Black in this line to overreach and die. It is Black, not White, who has to play carefully. You see, White pieces are far too close to the Black King for its confort.

Jul-09-16  morfishine: Exactly what does "objectively speaking" mean anyways? This looks like another attempt by an imitator annotator striving to gain credibility in a field they are not qualified to comment on in the first place
Aug-10-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  posoo: MORFUDLAIN is a SNOBB

in dis context OBJECTAVLY SPEKING means dat it is a SURE WAY to get da draugh if u think dat is da best result. and he is rite!

he made a good post do NOT be jells.

Sep-15-16  thegoodanarchist: <but Fischer got the long title on his placard.>

Tal got the <better> title on his placard.

Sep-15-16  thegoodanarchist: <Howard: Soltis called this draw one of the most "overrated" games in history, and, frankly, he's right. It was a good game, but not worth all the hype in my view.>

Soltis never played at this level, so he wouldn't know. And neither would you, actually.

Sep-30-16  Howard: One would suspect that Soltis COULD have played at this level...if he had a computer to help him, naturally.

Still say Soltis was correct when he stated in his book that if the two players in this game had been almost anyone else, this game would have been quickly forgotten.

Oct-01-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: <I'm still blaming HeMateMe.>

You're not the first person to say that.

Oct-01-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: was Leipzig in East or West Germany?
Oct-01-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gregor Samsa Mendel: <HMM>--East Germany.
Nov-08-16  Saniyat24: What are the other interesting options of White in the 16th move instead of Nf7?
Nov-25-16  amaurobius: <Joshka: I posted the pic on Ray's page, this will get settled once and for all :-) Heck even Nigel would know too> Ray has replied on 24 November - he thinks Forintos or possibly Eising.
Nov-25-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  roberts partner: <Joshka: I posted the pic on Ray's page, this will get settled once and for all :-) Heck even Nigel would know too> Ray has replied on 24 November - he thinks Forintos or possibly Eising.

Neither Forintos nor Eising was present at Leipzig 1960. The correct identification of the dark-suited spectator is given on page 4 of this thread.

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