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Koneru Humpy vs Clive L Waters
"Troubled Waters" (game of the day May-07-2005)
BCF-ch (1999), Scarborough ENG, rd 7, Aug-09
Zukertort Opening: Black Mustang Defense (A04)  ·  0-1
ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jun-07-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: Hello <SwitchingQuylthulg>. :-)

I had to look it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quylth...

Jun-07-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  YouRang: BTW, I see that this was Game-of-the-day back in May 2005, with the pun "Troubled Waters".

The pun seems out of place given that Waters was the winner with the black pieces.

Better, perhaps would have been:
- In hot Waters
- Old black Waters, keep on rollin (Ref: Doobies song)

Jun-07-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  Peligroso Patzer: Also winning would have been 18...Bxg2, for example: 19.Kxg2 Rxf3 20.Kxf3 ([A]20.exf3 Qh2# [B]20.Rh1 Qf7+) 20...Rf8+ 21.Kg2 (21.Ke4 Qf5#) 21...Qh2#.
Jun-07-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  SwitchingQuylthulg: <YouRang> Yes, 'quylthulg' is not the sort of word most people use in everyday conversation (if only because it's so difficult to pronounce). Nice to see it's made it into Wikipedia :)
Jun-07-07  craigdc: That's the quickest Thursday I've got for a while, so it must have been easy!
Jun-07-07  Sredni Vashtar: <Peligroso Patzer: Also winning would have been 18...Bxg2, for example: 19.Kxg2 Rxf3 20.Kxf3>

Yeah, right. Try 20. Rh1 (this refutation has been first posted by <al wazir> and <dzechiel>). While 18...Bxg2 wins, it requres much more effort.

<craigdc: That's the quickest Thursday I've got for a while, so it must have been easy>

So did find the mate-in-12 line that occurs if the white does NOT take the rook, right?

Jun-07-07  krippp: I honestly got this in about 2 seconds, because...

... besides the earlier mentioned Keene vs Briant, 1988, I've seen another game with exactly the same combination as here, only with reversed colours. I'd guess Waters had seen it as well: Bisguier vs Larsen, 1965

Jun-07-07  cuendillar: I found the text line quickly, but then took some time looking for improvements for black. I didn't want to just make a trap. Does my line 18...Rxf3 19.Qe6 Raf8 threatening Bg2 work, or did I miss something?
Jun-07-07  schnarre: ...Rxf3 was an obvious one to remove White's strongest defending unit: the Knight at f3. The rest followed easily enough.
Jun-07-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  playground player: The answer to this puzzle just jumped right out and hit me as soon as I looked at it--no thinking involved at all. I should say no conscious thinking. Morphy said he first visualized the position he wanted to reach, then thought about how to get there. So I saw the checkmate position right away, saw only the Knight stopping me, and RxN was elementary, my dear Watson.
Jun-07-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  fm avari viraf: Waters is getting a hot water bath since his Kingside is cramped & lacking coordination. Now, the exchange sac 18...Rxf3 is quite obvious & the rest is just easy going.
Jun-07-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:

Seeing 18...Rxf3 does not mean you solved the puzzle.

Carry on.

Jun-07-07  Sredni Vashtar: <cuendillar: Does my line 18...Rxf3 19.Qe6 Raf8 threatening Bg2 work, or did I miss something>

You missed 20.♕xe7 ♗xg2 21.♕h4 - should've played 20 ... ♗xg2 instead of ♖af8.

Congratulations, though on considering 19. ♕e6 - you're only the third person to do so.

Jun-07-07  cuendillar: Only finding 18...Rxf3 gives no credit at all. To get any credit, 18...Rxf3 19.Bxf3 Bg2 is needed. Full credit should take into account white's possible defences, in particular 18...Rxf3 19.Qe6 (best) Bxg2 20.Kxg2 Qh2+ 21.Kxf3 Rf8+ 22.Kxg4 g6! with undefendable mate. Also needed is 19."other" Raf8 and Bxg2 mates as in the game, the king can no longer take on f3.

If you saw all this in a matter of seconds, congratulations. Why don't you just enter a tournament to cash in an IM norm? Correctly guessing the first move is not solving a puzzle!!

After easily finding the played variation, took time to look at ways for white to increase resistance. I concluded with 18...Rxf3 19.Qe6 Raf8(inferior, but I missed 22...g6, have to learn to see these quite moves) 20.Qxe7 Bxg2 21.Qh4 Qxh4 22.gxh4 R3f6 23.Kxg2 Ne3+ 24.fxe3 Rxf1 with an extra rook. Is this good enough for partial credit?

Jun-07-07
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: For today's puzzle solution the pseudo sacrfice 18...Rxf3! removes the guard and allows White to execute a quick mating attack against White's weakened castled position. Regardless of how Black captures the Rook, Black plays 19...Bg2 with a decisive double mate threat (20...Qh8# or 20...Qh7#).
Jun-07-07  Ashram64: i'm more used to this style of puzzle..rather than finding the 'trap" as this week's theme so far.

18...Rxf3 19. Bxf3 Bg2! double mate threat!

Jun-07-07  Tactic101: Not difficult at all. Just a simple remove the guard.
Jun-07-07  IMDONE4: Easy for a thursday, but I do like that CG is bringing in the theme of removing the defender more often. Possibly we could also get some incredibly difficult Informator problems where the end is rather than on a Sunday?
Jun-07-07  Crowaholic: a) It's too easy for a Thursday.

or

b) I'm getting much better.

Since so many others thinks so, too, I'm afraid the answer is a).

Anyway, I saw that in order to mate, Black must move his bishop out of the way to allow Qh2#, and that the knight defends that square. So let's first remove the knight with 18. ..Rxf3. After 19. exf3 Bxg2, White is dead, so what about 19. Bxf3? I noticed that 19. ..Bxf1 20. Kxf1 gives White a new flight square and the queen cannot give check from h1 since the bishop defends it. So why take the rook anyway, it's worse than useless for White. The only other square to put the bishop on is g2, and then it was easy to see that all of 20. Bxg4, Bxg2, Kxg2 or any other White move that doesn't give check leads to mate in 1. And giving check with 20. Qg8+ Rxg8 would only delay the inevitable. Not taking the rook on move 19 leads to catastrophe, too.

Then I thought I must have missed something because this is too easy. The key themes (destroy the guard and clearance for the queen) are easy to see, and White doesn't have many options. Plus, checkmate happens quickly in most lines so there's no need for deep evaluation. All in all, my solution seemed to be more Tuesday or at most Wednesday level. But White really doesn't have any convincing response.

Jun-07-07  Billy Ray Valentine: <cuendillar> I'd go along with most or all of your comments. But I have to say, after 18...Rxf3, even if White plays 19. Qe6 and Black doesn't find the best moves, Black still has moves which will bring home the full point (unless I'm missing something). In a real game, I wouldn't care as long as I pulled home that full point.
Jun-07-07  Crowaholic: <Sredni Vashtar: Congrats, <greensfield>, for considering the line that the <too easy for thursday> crowd missed.>

Personally, I did take a look at 19. Qe6, but considered the position to be dead lost for White after 19. ..Bxg2. And what does White threaten to do anyway? Sacrifice the exchange by giving Q for N or R while Black's king remains in total safety? I confess I didn't calculate it out to a forced mate, but I know enough about chess that if you're a piece and an exchange down, you'd better have some positional compensation. And in this position, White does not get any compensation whatsoever. In fact, Black's pieces are still more active and the king is much more secure. Multiply things with the material advantage and that's enough to realize that Black wins easily, even if it's not a mate in 3.

To illustrate things, 19. Qe6 Bxg2 20. Kxg2 Rf6 may not be the fastest way, but it's not hard to see who's winning these positions:

a) After 21. Qxf6 Qh2+ 22. Kf3 Nxf6


click for larger view

or

b) After 21. Qxg4 Qxg4


click for larger view

or

c) After 21. Rh1 Qxh1+ 22. Kxh1 Rxe6


click for larger view

<Billy Ray Valentine: even if White plays 19. Qe6 and Black doesn't find the best moves, Black still has moves which will bring home the full point (unless I'm missing something>

That's exactly my point, although you managed to bring it home more briefly than I did. :-)

Jun-07-07  Sredni Vashtar: <Billy Ray Valentine and Crowaholic> Here's an example line with only one real (but plausible) mistake, I think (<highlighted in this manner>):

18. hxg3 ♖xf3 19. ♕e6 ♗xg2 20. ♔xg2 ♕h2+ 21. ♔xf3 ♖f8+ 22. ♔xg4 <h5+> 23. ♔g5 ♖f5+ 24. ♕xf5 ♘xf5 25. ♔xf5 ♕h3+ 26. ♔g6

It will still take a while to win this:


click for larger view

Granted, I got preoccupied with the line above, and thought 22 ... g6 needs to be a part of the complete solution. 20. ♖f6 does not allow for major mistakes, as <Crowaholic> illustrated.

Jun-07-07  siu02jm: Bg2 is sweet!
Jun-07-07  Warrush: My first thursday in awhile.
Apr-04-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: Koneru in deep waters.
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