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| May-04-04 | | LIFE Master AJ: <Reply to everyone>
My goodness!! I just read all four pages of kibitzing ... I am exhasuted! And I think I forgot what I came here to say! I do have a little web page on this game ... many GM's have personally written to me to tell me that they thought highly of my analysis of this game. |
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| May-07-04 | | talchess2003: for Kasparov's own annotations of this game, visit
http://medlem.spray.se/tal0/index.h...
*note i did not make this site, even though it ironically has tal in its url, hehe ** unfortunately the site has some problems with it, so if you are willing to put up with those problems to see kasparov's annotations then do so, but beware it can lag and the js applet can screw up.. |
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| May-08-04 | | LIFE Master AJ: A great game ... someone look at my analysis (see my earlier post!) and tell me what you think!! |
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| May-10-04 | | ughaibu: It puzzles me as to why people want to find ways to reduce Kasparov's achievement in this game, specifically that it was the result of opening preparation or that the entire thing was pre-played. The second idea has been dealt with fairly thoroughly, about the first, the opening preparation idea; I've just looked at games similar and found that the novelty occurs on move 9 and is introduced by Topalov, further, in all the listed pre-novelty games there is no example in the database with either Kasparov as white or Topalov as black, in short as unlikely a case for the "opening preparation" espousalists as one can imagine. On this point, one often reads about how Kasparov's results are so dependent on his opening preparation, the only example that springs to my mind is his famous game against Karpov featuring a d5 pawn sacrifice and even that one isn't convincing. Can someone post a whole bunch of important games that were clearly decided by Kasparov's opening preparation? |
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| May-10-04 | | Benjamin Lau: I agree with your sentiment ughaibu. Out of all the Kasparov games I've seen, only these five (below) had a significant amount of opening preparation, but it doesn't seem that the opening preparation won on its own. In some cases in fact, (i.e. the d5 pawn sack), it was later found that the victim had chances to equalize and it wasn't a predetermined win based solely on prep as some claim. Kasparov vs Portisch, 1983
Kramnik vs Kasparov, 1994
Kasparov vs Grischuk, 2003
Kasparov vs Anand, 1995
Kasparov vs Anand, 1991 |
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| May-10-04 | | Benjamin Lau: That's not a whole lot of games with significant preparation out of the 2000+ Kasparov has played his entire life. |
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| May-10-04 | | Everett: Benjamin Lau, can you say with certainty that these are the ONLY Kasparov games with opening prep that helped the result? I don't know if we're able to analyze specifically what results in a "win" from opening prep. I can say that having seen the position before at home helps, though, with the clock and with the nerves. Kasparov is a great player regardless, one of the best, if not the best, but let's not underestimate his opening prep. GM's since Fischer's time, and some before (notably Botvinnik) spend most of their time trying to get to positions they analyzed on their own at home. It's just par for the course now. Kasparov's opening preparation has been superior, but so has his talent. He researches, and he delivers. He's simply driven, both at the board and during prep. This game, BTW, is one of Kasparov's favorites for the reason (my hunch) that he did not prepare it at home at all, and from early on he was seeing a clean, unanalyzed position. This is a pure OTB win, and one of the best ever. |
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| May-11-04 | | Benjamin Lau: <Benjamin Lau, can you say with certainty that these are the ONLY Kasparov games with opening prep that helped the result> -> "Out of all the Kasparov games I've seen" So there are probably more, but I've seen quite a few. You are correct that it's difficult to show which prep led to immediately won games and which didn't, but there *is* concrete analysis that has shown that some games were not straight easy wins as I mentioned before. I agree with your hunch about this game with Topalov. |
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| May-11-04 | | iron maiden: <Ben>, for your list of Kasparov games with "opening preparation" you could also add Karpov vs Kasparov, 1985. Kasparov said that he had reached the position on move twenty in his preparation. |
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| May-11-04 | | Benjamin Lau: <Iron maiden>
Okay, no offense, but that game has been referenced at least twice in the above conversation. |
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| May-11-04 | | iron maiden: <Ben> I know, I just noticed it wasn't on your list. Call it being nitpicky. :-) |
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| May-14-04 | | ruylopez900: I don't think anyone's posted this, so here is some annotations done by Kasparov himself, winner of the game of the century http://medlem.spray.se/tal0/ |
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| May-14-04 | | MoonlitKnight: <ruylopez> Unfortunately, I believe the link has been posted several times before both here and in other places. Sorry about that. :) |
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| May-14-04 | | ruylopez900: <Moonlit> Quite right, I just saw that down below. http://www.geocities.com/lifemaster... has some annotations from LIFE Master AJ (I believe a kibitzer here) as well as other historical games. |
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| May-15-04 | | LIFE Master AJ: <Reply to MoonlitKnight, and everyone else>
I would be interested to know what you thought of my analysis. (Bear in mind, it is now close to five years old since I first posted it. But I have also updated it a few times.) BTW the link given earlier, if you download that fellow's zip file, he has my analysis on there as well. (But I never gave my permission for that.) |
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| May-16-04 | | ughaibu: Analysis deteriorates with age?? |
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| May-17-04 | | ruylopez900: <chessgames.com> I believe that this game is actually classified as being a Pirc rather then the Robatsch/Modern as you have it. |
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| May-20-04 | | mtatewaki: Benjamin Lau there arent only 5 with significant opening preparation... i can think of many others, for example:
beliavsky-kasparov 1983 (8.game)
kasparov-korchnoi 1983 (9.game)
kasparov-korchnoi 1983 (11.game)
kasparov-timman 1985 (2.game)
and what about the 1990 match with karpov? karpov himself commented that he lost the 2.game coz kasparov prepaired everything at home.. |
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| May-20-04 | | Benjamin Lau: mtatewaki: I said those were the only examples I recalled off the top of my head. Even including your examples and allowing for several possible others with significant preparation, that isn't a whole lot out of more than 2000 games. Opening preparation is overrated, it doesn't really affect the result of a game as much as people think. See the 1984-86 matches, there were many opening novelties introduced, but most of them did not impact the result of the game and led to draws, which is why they tend to be less famous, making it seem as if every time someone finds a new move, the game's over. See http://www.mark-weeks.com/chess/84k... for some commentary on which games had homemade preparation, you'll find that most of them were drawn. |
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| May-20-04 | | ruylopez900: Also, it should be noted not all novelties are good (in fact, according to chessbase or some other reputable source, most noveltyies are actually blunders/inaccuracies)(which is why no ones played them :)) |
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| May-21-04 | | mtatewaki: Benjamin Lau: i dissagree with your opinion that opening preparation is overrated. if opening prepation would be an important part only in 5 or 10 or 15 games out of 2000 why bother with it? if u'd ask the top players they'd say that opening preparation is very important and in the championship matches its essential. kasparov himself told that he lost the match against kramnik coz kramnik was better prapared in the opening. kasparov didnt expect berlin defense and it didnt suit his style at all, he was demoralized and couldnt do anything against it. wasnt that a perfect example how important is opening preparation? |
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| May-21-04 | | Benjamin Lau: It's important, but that doesn't keep it from being overrated mtatewaki. Opening preparation helps you do better, but it usually cannot win the game on its own. In Kasparov's case, he hasn't done *that* much better against Kramnik's Berlin even after the match, when he supposedly could have investigated the line more in depth. Out of the four Berlin games they played afterwards, three draws, one win for Kasparov. I agree that opening preparation is important, but I don't think it is as significant as most people make it out to be. |
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| Jun-01-04 | | LIFE Master AJ: <everyone>
I doubt any of this was prepared much beyond move 10 ... that was about the limit of opening theory at the time. |
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| Jun-01-04 | | seeminor: kasparov is a great player but utterly graceless. He spent a load of time saying how great he was when he won this game, yet when radjabov tore him to pieces and won the best game, kasparov became a cry baby and objected. |
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| Jun-02-04 | | Prophylaxis: Mr. Goldsby, you said "I personally believe much of this game was the result of extensive home preparation by Garry" on your website http://www.geocities.com/lifemaster.... What made you change your mind? |
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+ sac: 24.Rxd4
