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Alexander Alekhine vs Gosta Stoltz
Salzburg (1942), Salzburg AUT, rd 9, Jun-17
Sicilian Defense: Prins Variation (B54)  ·  1-0
ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-18-16  JimmyRockHound: Unusual to get an "insane" puzzle in a very late endgame. Nice one!
Dec-18-16  morfishine: Right, wrong or indifferent, my first instinct on what is the best move was <67...Qe5>
Dec-18-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: Black is one pawn down.

White threatens e7, etc.

The black king in middle of the board can be a problem if it blocks the queen when attempting a perpetual check. I probably would try to reach a3 or a2 with the king when checked to minimize counter-check chances.

A funny line is 67... Qg1+ 68.Kf7 Qf2+ 69.Ke8 Qg3 70.Kd8 (70.e2?? Qg8#) 70... Qb8+ 71.Ke2 (71.Qc8+ Qxc8+ 72.Kxc8 Kd6 =) 71... Qf4 and the king blocks the pawn.

That's all I can do today.

Dec-18-16  goodevans: The commentary gives <67...Qe5 68.e7 Qg3+> as one of the example drawing lines but I'm struggling to see how black then holds after <69.Kf7>.

If black checks on the f-file white can run his K to e8 then d8. If instead <69...Qb3+> then after <70.Kf8> it looks like black is forced to check an the f-file anyway.

I guess my logic is flawed somewhere. Maybe black still has a draw even after Kd8?

Dec-18-16  goodevans: Thinking out loud: <67...Qe5 68.e7 Qg3+ 69.Kf7 Qf4+ 70.Ke8 Qg5 71.Kd8 Qf6 72.Kc8 Qa6+ 73.Qb7 Qe6+ 74.Kb8> and I can't see a good move for black.
Dec-18-16  RandomVisitor: 52...Rc1 =
Dec-18-16  RandomVisitor: black might have missed 67...Qe5 = , but white missed 67.Qf7 .
Dec-18-16  Swedish Logician: Too hard for me!
I remember studying Q + P - the g pawn it was - vs Q fifty years ago at the hand of two Botvinnik games. Now I was surprised to find an informative Wiki page that seems to sum up what a club player needs to know. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen...
Dec-18-16  WorstPlayerEver: I put the position after 59. fe6 in Lobomotov7 and it says: White mates in 22 moves.

66. e7 (White mates in 15 moves) Qc1 67. Kh7 Qb1 68. Kg7 Qg1 69. Kf8 Qd4 (now simply 70. e8Q wins in 13 moves) 70. Qf5 Qh8 71. Kf7 and Black can't stop the promotion and they have to give up their Queen.

Compare Aljechin's 66. Qd7 (White mates in 43 moves).

Dec-18-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: positions like this (67...Black to play) made me give up my dream of being a GM
Dec-18-16  abuzic: ?Why didn't white play the much stronger 66.e7
Dec-18-16  WorstPlayerEver: <abuzic>

Aljechin feared to lose the e-pawn under check? That's probably why he moved the BK away from it..

Dec-18-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: Too Stolz (proud) to resign!
If that type of endgame separates the sheep from the goats, baaaah humbug
Dec-18-16  OBIT: While 67...Kg1 gets the question mark on the score sheet, it is worth noting that Alekhine's 67. Kg6 also deserves a question mark, as it turns a won position into a drawn position. Additionally, 66. Qd7 can be questioned, as it turns a 15-move win (after 66. e7) into a 43-move win. If Alekhine, one of the greatest calculators of all time, can't play this position correctly, it seems likely that no human can.
Dec-18-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <goodevans> <Thinking out loud: <67...Qe5 68.e7 Qg3+ 69.Kf7 Qf4+ 70.Ke8 Qg5 71.Kd8 Qf6 72.Kc8 Qa6+ 73.Qb7 Qe6+ 74.Kb8> and I can't see a good move for black.>

Substitute 70....Qb8+ in your line and see how that goes.


click for larger view

Dec-18-16  goodevans: <Jimfromprovidence> That does it, thanks.
Dec-18-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <al wazir> According to the Nalimov tablebases after 67...Qa6 Black is mated in 25 moves: 68.Qc7+ Kb4 69.Qf4+ Ka3 70.Qe3+ Kb4 71.Qe4+ Ka3 72.Kg5 Qb5+ 73.Kg4 Qb6 74.e7 Qg1+ 75.Kf4 Qh2+ 76.Ke3 Qh6+ 77.Kf2 Qh2+ 78.Qg2 Qh8 79.Qf3+ Kb4 80.Qe4+Kc5 81.e8=Q Qh2+ 82.Ke3 Qg3+ 83.Kd2 Qf2+ 84.Qe2 Qxe2+ 85.Qxe2 Kd6 86.Qe8 Kd5 87.Kd3 Kc5 88.Qd7 Kb4 89.Qc6 Ka5 90.Qb7 Ka4 91.Kc4 Ka5 92.Qb5#

The only move to draw is 67...Qe5.

Dec-18-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <<abuzic> Why didn't white play the much stronger 66.e7>


click for larger view

Because the "much stronger" 66.e7 does not lead to anything more than a draw per the Nalimov tablebases: 66...Qe5+ 67.Kg6 Qg3+ 68.Kh7 Qh4+


click for larger view

And now White's king cannot escape the checks on the g- and h-files. Interposing the queen does not help, for example: 69.Kg8 Qg5+ 70.Qg7 Qxg7+ 71.Kxg7 Kxe7 or 69.Kg7 Qg5+ 70.Qg6+ Qxg6+ 71.Kxg6 Kxe7.

And if White tries to move his king towards the q-side by 69.Kg8 Qg5+ 70.Kf8 Qh6+ 71.Ke8 then 71...Qg5 72.Kd8 Qa5+ 73.Ke8 Qa8# Black wins!


click for larger view

Dec-18-16  mel gibson: Both Queens still on the board at an end game.
It's best to swap Queens off before this can happen.
Dec-18-16  WorstPlayerEver: <AylerKupp>

First diagram: the Black King is on h6 not on h5....

Dec-18-16  ColeTrane: Chrisowen your poetry is repetitive and droll.... Go read e.e. cummings, or even Ferlinghetti. Those masters show a true ebb and flow of these linguistics on your stylized half azz version of a beatnik/surreal copycat dribble which shouldnt even be read aloud at a laundrymat coffeehouse in san francisco make em all puke we drop a nuke on your excuse for a fluke of a wannabe OG by the sea gotta go before I pee now read me kinda cheese oh please take that shtuff back to the Store before we die from being bored we do implore clean this gore off the chalk board its absurd like a turd etc.. Etc.. See its not cool is it ..?
Dec-18-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  wtpy: ColeTrane-Doesn't droll mean amusing?
Isn't that a quality a poet might want his words to have? I guess in Mr Owens defense he could say you don't have to read it, and most of us dont.
Dec-19-16  abuzic: AylerKupp: <<abuzic> Why didn't white play the much stronger 66.e7>


click for larger view

<Because the "much stronger" 66.e7 does not lead to anything more than a draw per the Nalimov tablebases: 66...Qe5+ 67.Kg6 Qg3+ 68.Kh7 Qh4....>

As posted by <WorstPlayerEver: <AylerKupp> First diagram: the Black King is on h6 not on h5....> thanks...

The position <AylerKupp> refers to after White's proposed move 66.e7, but the white ♔ is on h5 not on h6 as in the actual game, below


click for larger view

So my question stands: after black's 65...Kd6


click for larger view

?Why didn't white play the much stronger 66.e7
According to Nalimov tablebases, http://k4it.de/?topic=egtb&lang=en it is # in 15 moves.

Dec-19-16  ColeTrane: Come to think I was too harsh.....on second thought, chrisowen your change of pace / scenery is a lively element and certainly prevalent and reliable.... So keep up the drivel, how ever one may see it.
Jul-01-18  joddon: Stoltz was a super master....he played the opening perfectly, and made it through the middle game to enter an endgame fight like no other....every move had to be well calculated before the next.....to have two pawns the way Alekhine had was just a mastery of talent.....I don't think anyone except Magnus could perform a blow in the end like that!
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